Paedophile in your family

From: Dunggate Sent: 18/09/2008 23:19
Thank you Missy for bringing the post back up,... this is an ongoing happening in many lives and those who may be newcomers to the group may miss this thread which could be of benefit to them.
Elaine.

From: Missy Sent: 18/09/2008 21:26
Sorry to drag this one back but.....

I can see where everyones coming from here. I think forgiveness depends on the person although I do think it would be better to forgive then to not, for the victims own benefit of course. I think that child perverts are disgusting and I have a friend who was abused, shes 30 with 3 kids, another on the way and a binge drinker/drug taker, its totally ruined her. I do believe that its all orchestrated by the devil and it should be reported because these people need to be kept away from kids because satan never gives up tempting. I do not think we would be any less of a christian for reporting it.

Bless you all.

MISSY.

From: CurlyBoisvert Sent: 23/07/2008 09:28
This is very difficult as I don't know or I'm not sure if I have forgiven my father. Each time things concerning paedophiles come on the news I get sooo angry. It was not just myself it was my niece as well he only touched her inapropiately but that was long after he came out of prison so prison was not a detterent he was sent back for 3 months. I also have a sister in Canada that has a different mum and she went back to Canada with him, what has her life been like? There are so many things that his abuse has ruined in my life and also my hubby's as I have been celibate for over 20 years now and bless him so has he, he must love me very much. So how do I forgive my father as he is dead, I can't even say it to him and my feelings get the better of me at times and I almost feel hatred for him.

From: Merry20004 Sent: 20/07/2008 21:09
You are right Free, no matter how hard or painful, forgiveness is the ONLY answer. How can we ever expect God to forgive us our sins if we can't forgive those that sin against us?
Not sure if Ihave put this down before, but Corrie Ten Boom met one of the Concentration Camp Guards after the war, who was responsible for killing her sister. He went to shake her hand, and she really felt as if she couldn't do it. She prayed silently, and then without any effort on her part, she felt her arm being lifted and shaking his hand. At that moment all the hatred disappeared.
I too was abused as a child, and like Elaine, haven't really suffered greatly from it, so I suppose that we are lucky in that respect.

From: FreeSpirit3530 Sent: 20/07/2008 09:07
Hello Elaine .very brave post .......and is a subject that most people would rather not discuss and imo should..........I was abused by an uncle and so was my older sister and 2 brothers ........i was only 4 yrs old ,he lived with us .Back to the question What action should one take as a Christian?
Forgiveness is the only answer here.........
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Matthew 6:14-15)

From: CurlyBoisvert Sent: 17/07/2008 12:51
Thanks Bertie. Yes you are right about not shattering your sisters illusions of your brotherinlaw. The Lord will deal with all these issues. Yes political correctness has gone mad.
June

From: Bertie2006 Sent: 17/07/2008 08:06
Hello June,
I had completely forgotten this post, thank you for bringing it back up, I am sorry to hear of the hurt that you and your mother suffered, not only the abuse at the hands of your father, but also the abuse you suffered from neighbors and teachers.

You are quite right about families pushing aside these issues back in our youth, it was an entirely different culture then, the abuse around then was I suspect more or at least equal to that of today, but today it is more talked about, sometimes I feel we have gone to far, today I heard the news of a man taking pictures of his own children in the park and he was subjected to verbal abuse and threats from other park users.

Since this post was first put up I have been made aware that not all was right with my children's lives, over the last few weeks I have been rebuilding relationships with my daughters after my divorce, my oldest has confided in me that my sisters husband used to touch her when we went to visit, and my youngest was abused by her stepbrother when she was 11, my sisters husband is long dead (and will be paying in full now with the Lord), I shall not mention this to my sister as her and her children they loved this man, as I did at the time, but I see no point in shattering their lives as well.

Bertie

From: CurlyBoisvert Sent: 16/07/2008 22:17
My own feelings on abuse, having been abused by my own father for 6 yrs. I felt that he was not punished enough. I'm 66 now and families tended to push things to the back ground those days and there was no such things as councelling. My father went to an open prison where he was allowed out to work, join a band and keep a pet. Mum and I were ostracised by neighbours and some the the teachers were horrible tous as well. Have I forgiven him, I don't know, at times I say I have then I read about other paedophiles and the gross things they do. I don't think they're urges ever go away and I think they should be locked up and the key thrown away.

From: Dunggate Sent: 06/07/2007 10:26
I was brought up in the days of not in front of the children and whenever adult talk was going on children were told to go out and play or leave the room. Another thing was little children should be seen and not heard. Grandmother was the head of the household while grandfather went out to earn the bacon. So her word was law. Many families lived in one household due to lack of accommodation as it was in my case.

Like you Trevor and Lyn I had first hand experience

My uncle abused me as a child, he was a teenager. In those days the word pedophile was unheard of or at least not spoken of as it is today. I do believe as it says in the bible end times wickedness will increase

Thankfully today these things are now spoken of openly.

What I would like to bring in my contribution is that, I was not a Christian but did grow up in a home where the words of God were spoken in the sense of moral conduct and forgiveness. My grandmother would help others less fortunate and I observed her examples. My uncle had taken my innocence from me and thankfully it did not fester in my life to cause me the harm that others have experienced.

Maybe I did get some release, revenge whatever a young child thinks, when I told a tale on my uncle, my grandmother wouldn't approve of, that this uncle had done, a totally different thing I will add and she came down hard on him.

We did grow up in the same house for many more years and I still had contact later in life where I am glad to say had the opportunity to lead him to the Lord. This uncle is now dead.

In the opening post I speak of another person who is facing the similarity of it being an uncle.

The abused person is in counselling after many years of suffering. When this person comes through I pray the help she is experiencing will also help her to confront the abuser, giving the opportunity to ask forgiveness and to seek counselling for themselves. That she will be given guidance in the action she takes.

If anyone is reading this and have been abused in any way
I advise you to seek professional counselling that you may deal with things appropriately.

You may have even broached the subject with the family or a friend and not been believed this is something I had come across in speaking with others on this same problem. Do not be put off if this is the case with you.

Thank you all for your input.
God bless you
Elaine.

From: Bertie2006 Sent: 06/07/2007 08:39
Thank you Pickle for sharing with us. I am glad that your father found peace and forgivness before he died, I can only imagine the hurt that you and your daughter must have felt by the actions of family members, people who you should feel safe with.
In your daughters case i can see how hard it would be to forgive this man for the havoc and pain he has greated in your lives, and understand that you both never want to see him again, i will certainly pray for you both that you both will be able to find Peace again in your lives.
God Bless you Both.
Bertie

From: inapickle22 Sent: 06/07/2007 00:21
Wow Elaine, so sorry that I missed this topic till now.
As many will know, I was abused by my father from an early age yet was not able to tell anyone cos of fear etc.
Would I advise victims to tell on their abusers? Yes I would, otherwise the abuser could carry on abusing others without fear of being reported.
I would also advise that the abused get councelling, something which I never had as I hid it for so long. They say we learn by our mistakes and know that I would of turned out different if only I had been brave enough to speak out all those years agao.
I will add tho, that my daughter was raped by a family member and the abuser was jailed for 4 years but let out in 2 for good behaviour. I don't know what happened to him after that but do know that neither I nor my daughter wish to meet him again.
As a Christian I knew I would have to forgive my father and tho it took years for me to do that, I know in my heart that I have. The one thing that did shake me on this was to learn that just before he died, he accepted Jesus into his life.. now that was harder for me to accept than actually forgiving him for all he'd done to me.... to think that now he is in heaven.
Oops, think I'm straying from the question here, so sorry..
the question was : What action should one take as a Christian?
I would say we have to take action for the sake of the victim as God has told us to care for the young.
God bless you all.
Lyn

From: Bertie2006 Sent: 04/07/2007 00:08
AMEN

From: openairpreacherman Sent: 04/07/2007 04:53
Thank you Gilly l found your input most interesting

Steve

From: Gilly Sent: 03/07/2007 23:53
I shall pray alongside you in partner on this Bertie because yes you are right it is hard to forgive and it takes time to come to forgivenss, but the moment you have shown the willigness to forgive God starts the healing process..His love and Graciousness knows no bounds and the blessings start flowing into your life.
I pray also that the many who remain trapped within the brokeness of their hearts and soul from this henious abuse will be lead to find the courage to speak out against their abusers so that they too can forgive their abusers in time and receive healing, and reclaim the joy of a life of giving and receiving the true and unconditional love that God created us for.

God Bless
Gilly

From: Bertie2006 Sent: 03/07/2007 23:34
Thank you for your input Bertie, although I don't know how you can say you disagree with everything Trev says.
Sex outside marriage was severely punished in the Old Testament Law (including sex with animals same sex behaviour and forced sex)
The opening post was about paedophiles, and totaly disregarded Trev opening comment has nothing to do with paedophiles.
I personally agree........ it is a toughie!
No not a toughie if you believe and follow the bible as i know you do the answer is right there for you.
Let me give you an example. A child is abused by an uncle and never tells anyone, when facing this issue as an adult, and seeking counselling, find that the grandmother has suffered heart attacks, so decides not to go further bringing this into the open because it would break the grandmothers heart, maybe causing her death. I can understand this.
We as adults yes if we know a child is being abused YES it is our responsibility to protect them.
So you keep quiet, the uncle goes on to abuse other members of the family, then moves onto children outside playing,then onto murder. You explain to the parents why you did not say anything, or better still explain to God.
God is able to heal the victim who is able to forgive the abuser, and be strong enough to confront them, offering them the opportunity to seek counselling for themselves.
Yes God can heal the child, but only if the child seeks God, how many abuseed children go on to lead totaly disfungtional lives, never finding the peace of the Lord, because we kept quiet.
With much respect Elaine i believe both you and Trev are wrong on this issue.
Gilly my friend.
Bertie, I can understand where you say you can't forgive, but by doing so it is you that is being set set free. By handing these people to God and asking that He deal with them we are able to set our hearts free from the anger and revenge we feel directed towards them. In your prayers, ask God to show you how.
Sorry Gilly i did not say i could not forgive, my words were i would find it hard and it would take a lot of prayer for me to do so, but i know from experiance that i can eventually forgive.
As for the rest of your post. Spot on
Bertie

From: Gilly Sent: 03/07/2007 22:43
An excellent use of Scripture Steve....I had to recommend....and yours Bertie..spoken from the heart.

Going back to the original post which asks about a family member abusing another in the past and how we as Christians should respond.
I believe Jesus' words in Luke 17 clearly give us an indication of how God responds we should respond similarly.....lock them away for life in the case of a paedophile) whether the abuse is of a sexual, physical or emotional abuse they need to be punished.

I can't agree with anything in your post Trevor other than the forgiveness issue...we are commanded to forgive but that doesn't mean we can condone what amounts to 'murder' of the soul when a child is the victim of sexual abuse. They are robbed of their childhood and of knowing the joy and unconditional love of God and others.

I have understood from your post that it is the adult victims of childhood sexual abuse you have counselled, but I believe that it is wise to refer them to the professionals who are well equipped with the enormous overwhelming feelings that can be released during the counselling process, sometimes these memories when released can be too overbearing for them to cope with unless placed in the skillful hands of a trained therapist.

I have worked professionally with both children and older victims, Christians and Non-Christians and have found that it is only when they are able to reach a state of forgiveness for their abuser which is a process that takes time and much gentle handling..... that healing and restoration can take place.

I can well understand that most victims, although they can forgive, do not want to confront their abuser again.

I believe that as soon as any child abuse comes to light it should be reported immediately to the authorities...to not do so is a sin and a legal as well as moral obligation on my part to report.

Most sexual offenders do NOT want forgiveness, they show no remorse for their sins....they justify their actions and will go on to reoffend time and time again if released into society. You see it is a condition, a mindset (In my opinion from the devil) with them and they get pleasure from abusing. They cannot be counselled.....they don't want to be counselled, and those that have gone through updated rehab programmes before release into the community do go on to offend again and again.

So as a Christian counsellor I would not counsel them, but as a Christian I can forgive them as long as they are removed from society never to integrate amongst children again.

Bertie, I can understand where you say you can't forgive, but by doing so it is you that is being set set free. By handing these people to God and asking that He deal with them we are able to set our hearts free from the anger and revenge we feel directed towards them. In your prayers, ask God to show you how.

God Bless, and keep all these little (and not so little) ones in your prayers.

Gilly

Thank you for your input Bertie, although I don't know how you can say you disagree with everything Trev says.
Sex outside marriage was severely punished in the Old Testament Law (including sex with animals same sex behaviour and forced sex)
Where the law has been broken in a church context we have to report it to the authorities by law and there seems little option.
What I do know is that Jesus can forgive every type of sin but not without dealing with the sinner as well.

I personally agree........ it is a toughie!
The question is too broad to give a single answer.
I agree
If the abused person is known then they need sympathetic counsel and help to make the decision. If the abuser is known they need to face up to the problem and receive counsel and receive justice in the right balance.
As Trevor has said
I agree

Let me give you an example. A child is abused by an uncle and never tells anyone, when facing this issue as an adult, and seeking counselling, find that the grandmother has suffered heart attacks, so decides not to go further bringing this into the open because it would break the grandmothers heart, maybe causing her death. I can understand this.
We as adults yes if we know a child is being abused YES it is our responsibility to protect them.

Whilst steve brought us the scriptures
If I am reading correctly Steve is saying it should be reported whoever and whenever I am not sure if this is meant as at any costs to be reported, if this is the case I personally do not go along with this as there is a wider picture and much need to be taken into consideration.
God is able to heal the victim who is able to forgive the abuser, and be strong enough to confront them, offering them the opportunity to seek counselling for themselves.
My mother always said God do not sleep and justice will always be done.
I am saving my full input until last.
Elaine

From: Bertie2006 Sent: 03/07/2007 21:35

I am sorry Trev i totaly disagree with everything you say, as pointed out by steve the Word does clearly mention abuse to young children.
There is no reasoning with paedophiles, they will allways try and justify there actions, and never show remorse, if you were truely abused as a child Trev you will know the hurt and guilt you went through, and if you decided to let this person go without punishment, then he is free to carry on with his/her deplorable acts, and as such if you know this person is a abuser of children and do not report him/her then you would have to carry some of the guilt, or maybe all of it for there actions.
As a Christian i would find it hard to forgive him/her as the bible says i should forgive, but i would never hesitate to make sure that he/she had the millstone firmly placed on him/her.
Bertie

Thank you both for your input

replies
My view is that as Child abuse is such a big issue morally then it should always be reported who ever and when ever it is committed.steve

Where it has happened in private family situations and in the past I would want to know the circustances, whether it was regular or short term, whether it was discussed with the victim and if so what their views were and if they would want to go through the ordeal of police investigation and action.

Trevor

This is in the past.
What action should one take as a Christian?
Maybe others will give their views I have highlighed the question in O/P
Elaine.

From: openairpreacherman Sent: 03/07/2007 18:02
Child abuse is mentioned in the Bible

2Ki 17:31 And the Avites made Nibhaz and Tartak, and the Sepharvites burnt their children in fire to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim.

Child sacrifice and ritual abuse

2Ki 23:10 And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech.
2Ch 28:3 Moreover he burnt incense in the valley of the son of Hinnom, and burnt his children in the fire, after the abominations of the heathen whom the LORD had cast out before the children of Israel.
2Ch 33:6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

The nations that were driven out of the land of Canaan practised child slavery and child prostitution as part of their politcal and religious system.

Jesus spoke about those who offend children

Luk 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

My view is that as Child abuse is such a big issue morally then it should always be reported who ever and when ever it is committed.

steve

From: trevor_of_bude Sent: 03/07/2007 17:31
difficult one that as abuse of children is not actually touched on in the Bible.

Sex outside marriage was severely punished in the Old Testament Law (including sex with animals same sex behaviour and forced sex) but abuse within the family does not seem to be much mentioned.

Having been the victim as a child by soemone close (but not family) I know hos it confused me and over the years I have had to deal with those who have been abused but rarely with abusers.

Where the law has been broken in a church context we have to report it to the authorities by law and there seems little option.

Where it has happened in private family situations and in the past I would want to know the circustances, whether it was regular or short term, whether it was discussed with the victim and if so what their views were and if they would want to go through the ordeal of police investigation and action.

Only with all the facts and being aware of the reactions of the people concerned would I even begin to take action.

The question is too broad to give a single answer.

I have dealt with people who as believers have been able to forgive the abuser and chosen not to take legal action I have dealt with people who have been abused and chosen to talk it through and not want to relive the ordeal and I have dealt with people who have had the abuser put in prison as the only way to clear it out of their minds.

If the abused person is known then they need sympathetic counsel and help to make the decision. If the abuser is known they need to face up to the problem and receive counsel and receive justice in the right balance.

What I do know is that Jesus can forgive every type of sin but not without dealing with the sinner as well.

its a toughie !

From: Dunggate (Original Message) Sent: 03/07/2007 16:20

You find out that a close member of family has abused another in the past.

What action should one take as a Christian?

Your thoughts would be good but if possible scriptures to back up please.
Elaine