Focus on Tattoo's?

From: Dunggate Sent: 17/01/2009 22:26
AddingTopic here from another board I have been going through and trying to form in one thread which will be easier to take over to our New Home.
From: Emma8921 (Original Message) Sent: 02/05/2008 14:46
what are people views on having tatoos is it right for christians to have tatoos is there anything scriptual against them i have wanted a tatoo for years just something simple with my old dog trixie and of course now i have tammy her name also but for some reason i have never had it done as i am not sure if it is wrong to acording to scripture and by doing that would i be simberlising my dogs as my idol instead of christ what are peoples views on tatoos as christians as i do know and have heard of people after becoming christian having them removed would be very intrested on peoples views and any scriptures relating to them

emma

From: openairpreacherman Sent: 04/05/2008 08:56
Three scriptures come to mind.

Firstly the LORD said in the OT that Israel was not to mark their skin. Lev 19v28 “Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD”. The Israelites did obey this commandment as far as we can tell. It is never mentioned again so presumably Israel never did and they never needed to be told about it again. The heathen nations seemed to have carried on this cultural practice. But Israel seemed to be free from it. After all if the practice does not start - then it does not become a fashion. We are not under the commandments of the Mosaic Law today but it would appear to me that the will of God expressed on this issue is timeless – that we keep our skin clean and unblemished.

The next scripture reminds us that whatever we do we must do it to the glory of God. This means that each of us should do is for the glory of God. Each of us needs to ask ‘Can l pray to ask Gods blessing on this thing’. 1Cor 10v31. "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God."

Lastly we need to remember that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. It’s the only one we have got and it is to be keep holy for the Lord. We do not belong to ourselves we belong to the Lord. We all know that defacing someone else’s property is against the law of our country. So is not writing on our bodies defacing the temple of God. Some people might say ‘I can do what l like with my body if l want to’. That’s true but that is not the attitude of a christian – we belong to the Lord. Our body is his. 1Cor 6v19-20 "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."

In the nation of Israel and to some degree in Greek and Roman culture this was not a widespread practice and so it is not mentioned specifically in the NT. The Barbarians however were into tattoos in a big way. The ancient Britons for example covered their whole bodies in red and blue to make themselves look fearsome in battle.

Of course in a coming day the mark of the beast will be upon the hand and head of those who worship the Antichrist. Rev 3v16 ‘And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads’.

This is a cultural thing and so no rule can be made on this issue.

steve

From: trevor_of_bude Sent: 04/05/2008 16:24
i agree with Steve it is a cultural matter. Sometimes the content of a tattoo can be unedifying.

For me its the motive behind the tattoo. If it is a means of self-harm or a method of committing oneself to display a message of hate or servanthood it can be harmful. If it is just fashionable then its important to remember fashions change but tattoos last till death.

As simple decoration I see it as no different to dyed hair or wearing ear-rings though personally I would not take the risk of someone drilling dye into my body or piercing my ears because I dont see the 'point' of it!!

If you dont need one dont have one - if you have one dont worry about it.

From: openairpreacherman Sent: 04/05/2008 17:24
Can't see the point Trev LOL

Steve



From: Dunggate Sent: 04/05/2008 18:25
I can see Trev's point Steve
Qoute:For me its the motive behind the tattoo. If it is a means of self-harm or a method of committing oneself to display a message
end of quote.
Whilst I agree Steve on the scriptures which are brought from the old testament.

My testimony to this is that some of you may be aware I have mentioned that I had a bad road traffic accident when I was age 15 and personally my body has scaring, so those bits which are unblemished my preference would be not to tattoo.

Another thought came across my mind WHEN you talked of having a tattoo of your trixie and tammy.
As a parent there are things which each of my kids had been treated TREATS differntly due to circumstances i.e. not much money or in a better position on special dates...when we have looked back on times all know I love them by my affections they don't need to have any special reminders on my body or hangings on the walls you get my drift? I have the comfort in my heart they are loved.

Blessings
Elaine.
From: ExquisiteFlower78 Sent: 04/05/2008 19:17
Emma, our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. How we care for that Temple is down to us. There is guidance in the Word of God, but it is a personal choice.

On a personal note as skin ages it changes in elasticity and this can change the design of a tattoo. Should you decide this is something that you wish to do bear this in mind. There is nothing worse than an enlarged or wrinkled tattoo.

May you make the right decision for yourself here.
God bless you
EF.x
From: openairpreacherman Sent: 05/05/2008 05:00
Oh dear what a thought EF.

Steve

From: Missy Sent: 29/09/2008 10:46
I know Im a bit late coming in on this but Emma I would say "Don't do it Hun".

MISSY.
From: Missy Sent: 29/09/2008 11:17
"Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print or tattoo any marks upon you: I am the Lord." Leviticus19:28



From: Merry20004 Sent: 29/09/2008 22:33
Don't do it love! I know it is fashionable and trendy, but when women have tattoo's, for some reason their skin doesn't hold the colour and shape, and in another ten or twenty years it will just be a faded blob. I am sure you look far better with pure white skin!

From: Gilly Sent: 15/01/2006 21:31
Hi Lez,
I had thought this thread had just about run its course but it seems not.
As for your remark, remarking about Kem's remark, I was shocked to hear your uncompassionate and insensitive comments, which could be very damaging to victims going through this illness.
As for ilikeformlaone's remark on self harming that is worse than tattoo's how could anyone cut there own skin, except for attention
I feel it may help if I can give my understanding of WHY some people may cut their own skin, and I can assure you it has NOTHING to do with them seeking to draw attention to themselves....in fact quite the reverse.
Many of those who self harm have suffered trauma, an abuse, so horrifying that the only way they can continue to function is by blotting out the memory of it. To retain the memory would cause more pain than they could cope with, so they bury these memories deep inside, never they hope, to resurface....that is until triggers in their life release the feelings of the fear that came with the pain of the initial abuse. By inflicting pain through self harm upon themselves it seems to justify the pain they refused to cope with at the time of the initial abuse.
Can you imagine how these people suffer...constantly at the mercy of fears that refuse to cease. Never seeming able to release the pressure of arising fears, and to top it all you are now telling them that they should drop to their knees and ask forgiveness for suffering such torment and pain from God. It is understanding, and compassion and healing these victims need and in great measure. Before they can bring themselves to forgive the monsters of their abuse, they first of all need to be helped to bring these painful memories to the surface, and this can only be done with much gentleness and in God's timing....only the Holy Spirit knows how and where to tinker here in their badly damaged emotions, as to recall too hastily could cause more pain than they are able to cope with.
As missy said, it is themselves they are harming, but remember they are the VICTIMS not the transgressors of this shameful crime. It is the pertpetrators who should drop to their knees before God and beg forgiveness, BECAUSE GOD DOES NOT ALLOW WHAT THESE ABUSERS HAVE DONE.
Gilly

From: Missy Sent: 15/01/2006 10:43
Dear Lez,
We as brothers and sisters in Christ support all our members, especially those that are depressed and desperate enough to feel the need to self harm. Your comment is very negative and probably very hurtful to people that do self harm. Personally I feel God would want us to support these people and although he may not allow people to cut their skin, he would know how troubled and sad these people feel. He knows their hearts after all. They are hurting themselves, no one else!

MISSY.

From: Jesus_gave_me_my_life Sent: 15/01/2006 01:47
Tattoos have become a fashionable accessary to people's bodies.
The bible tells us clearly not to do it!!
As for ilikeformlaone's remark on self harming that is worse than tattoo's how could anyone cut there own skin, except for attention. I am sure God wouldn't allow that for one second. Any one who has tattoo's or self harm should get down on there knees and pray for forgivness.
Lez

From: praise_dios Sent: 14/01/2006 21:10
hello all I am new to the group and this is my first post.

a number of years ago (1991) I was working in ministry in the netherlands, for my birthday one of the others bought me a tatoo.
since that time I have read many different translations of leviticus 19, in search of an answer.
then I was left wondering if it is alright to shave it was very clear on piercing
I feel it alright as long as its not tatoos of negitive things, ie demons, devils

From: Rock Child of God Sent: 23/12/2005 12:27
Missy - i'm now totally lost on this tattoo topic, lol, I dunno who's speaking to who but forgive me please guys it's very hectic at home (purgatory would be a better term for our home at the mo). My bottom line is: I wish (personally) I had never had mine done and would advise anyone who does have a tattoo (saved or unsaved) to think carefully as once you may have loved your platform shoes (or whatever) and now you wouldn't be seen in them! You can't change 'em once they are on unlike clothes and hair. I must be the only woman in our home town who has to walk around on a boiling hot summers day with a long sleeve top on! Think before you ink!
Missy - yes I do believe he was, scary thought isn't it? Your walking around the supermarket/town etc and one could be right near you.
What is this world coming too? Total chaos as predicted!
May I just add for those who for whatever reason (like moi) cannot get to the Christmas service at their church, A Christmas service is on ITV, at about 11.30 pm with a few famous faces singing Christmas carols and hymns. And a Midnight mass for Catholics is on BBC1 at around the same time.
Praise Jesus, God Bless, Helen

From: _ailikeformulaone_ Sent: 22/12/2005 18:38
just going back a bit to what princess said about the self harming, would that be the same as a tattoo though. it doesn't say not to put ink in your body it says not to mark your body, and would that not cover earings as well.
the church i used to belong to, a lady stood in front of me saying i was wrong for having a tattoo but she was wearing earings, whats the difference, isn't marking or any sort wrong

From: trevor_of_bude Sent: 22/12/2005 18:23
Hi all have just read this thread and whilst I personally dont see the 'point' in injecting the body with foreign substances for merely decorative reasons I do wear after shave to enhance my attractiveness!!

Just a theological question on the quote that has stirred up much of the controversy from Leviticus.

From an exegetical point of view it seems to me to refer to tattoo-ing (whatever the original meant) is associated in the text with 'on behalf of the dead' and may well refer to doing some mutilation to the body as part of mourning, but I havent had chance to look it up. May post when I get home and can access some commentaries

trevorofbude

From: Missy Sent: 22/12/2005 14:27
Hi Princess, long time no see!!! Good to have you around, hope your well!!


Helen, I know you never said it, I didnt want you thinking it either hun',thats one lucky lady but how did he know? Was he one of the terrorists?


MISSY.

From: Rock Child of God Sent: 22/12/2005 14:16
Sorry guys, I haven't been round posting except for the word for 2day thing. Not had much time with Christmas coming plus everyone has had a cold and stomach ache - still at least we'll be better for Christmas day!

Been doing "catch-up" on posts.

There seems to be some confusion, as some one is getting me and suzukiSVrider (Steve - I believe he is called) mixed up, but it's a hectic time of year! (Plus my old bike was a Honda 400 Dream - yes the one!).

Missy - I never said you where calling me or judging me sis, I never even thought it. I however believe that the Liv Law has been fullfilled through Jesus - who said not to concern ourselves with what we should eat and wear (Gospels). I believe that "tattoos" come under the "believers freedom" - they are neither beneficial nor not. So it's a personal choice God gave us. Plus we have punctures in our skin, earrings, blood tests, flu jabs, blood transfusions etc. Some cultures (Take ancient egypt for one of many) made weird marks and brandings on themselves as ancestor and animal worship. But sis, your right on the fact that the only thing that matters is JESUS, plus in heaven we will have a new body, new name and a white gown! No tats, no blemishes, no wrinkles! (woohoo!). Hope i'm explaining what I mean ok, as I have had my painkillers and my daughter and mother are arguing so my head is throbbing! I neither advocate nor condemn tattoos as I believe Jesus neither advocates nor condemns them (on Christians).

Elaine - sorry to hear about that sis. But on the same topic, I have a few scars from my back op, one runs from my neck to about 3" away from my tailbone, the other runs from under my right "chest" round my shoulder blade and my 1st tattoo I had at 15 (which is on my right shoulder) I said I wasn't bothered if they cut it whilst operating, but they didn't - however it is faded that much that the consutant asked if it was one of those temporary ones!

Princess of the king - Praise Jesus for what He has done for you. Big hugs to ya. I agree I don't think make-up and jewellery is wrong, or looking trendy (or like a little hippy in my case, lol) or whatever.

It's when it takes over your life and is put before Jesus then it's wrong - same with TV, music etc.
Although one woman at our church used to show way to much cleavage and "bits" as a result men where looking at her not their bibles! She got kicked out as she had an affair with an Elder (who got kicked out) then ran off with one of my friends husband! There is a difference between attractive and jezebelish.

I also read that a woman had died as she had too many piercings!
Hair dye is bad for you (bit late in my case as i've done it since I was 13, lol, I have had it every colour under the sun! Inc.Tye Dye effect dreadlocks in my mohecian - in the wrinkle free and energy flowing days, lol).

Elaine you wrote:
Not detracting from the topic but although we come under grace of the New Testament of Christ Jesus there is much good advice in the Old Testament and God expects us to pray, use discernment and gather knowledge before entering into such things.
Your right and we had a long talk on tattoos, piercings and appearances at church as many of the youth where having them etc. Plus after some aggro off some of the other church members we faced - we all sat and talked about it and it was preached. That's where I got my info from (and prayer).

I do believe that tattoos aside, we should be praying for the Christmas period.
A lady from our church found a wallet outside a "shopping centre" she asked around, saw security and eventually a very relieved owner came to her. Astounded by her honesty, he offered her a reward as he had plenty money. She refused telling him she didn't expect to be paid for being honest as she is a Christian. He said to her that in her kindness he must offer her something in reward so if she would take no money - to take a tip! He then told her to stay away from a certain busy shopping centre (Manchester area) near to Christmas as it would save her life!
She rang the police when she got home and they where already aware of the terrorists group plans, she was able to provide them with more info though.
Praise Jesus, He never fails us does he? Amen.

God Bless you all, Helen xxx

From: Dunggate Sent: 20/12/2005 14:04
Thank you princess for sharing with us.
I have read the Topic which is not this weeks actually No problem always good to draw up a thread when you have something to add.
I Wrote up as Kem requested. I did bring a comment that I saw on TV News that they were saying those with Tattoo's could be more prone to cancer.
I personally do not want a tattoo as I have several large scars on my body due to a major road accident so the bits that I have I want to keep looking best I can Now please folks don't go off on one on vanity lol
Not detracting from the topic but although we come under grace of the New Testament of Christ Jesus there is much good advice in the Old Testament and God expects us to pray, use discernment and gather knowledge before entering into such things.
My 2$ worth
Elaine.

From: Princess_of_the_King_39 Sent: 20/12/2005 09:56
Hi there

First of al, I'm sorry I've not been around much, but i thought i would post on this thread, just giving my own thoughts. I personally dont think the Lord would have any problems with women wearing a little make up, depending on the reason, if it's to get attention from males, I wouldn't think He'd like that, for He wants us to go to Him for attention and trusted friends. But if the make up was to enhance the atractiveness already there, or maybe cover blemishes, then I think that would be ok.

Tattoos though are permanent, so i wouldn't get one fofr that reason, once on, it can't be removed, except surgically, which leaves scarring. I suffer from depression and used to cut deep holes in my arm, then need stitches. But I'd make the whole first then stick my fingers inside it, and that was a cry for help. I've been seeing a counsellor and I've not cut for three years, cos she helped me see what my triggers were which I now avoid. Hope it's ok to share like this. But though i don't do it now, thoughts of self harming still fly into my head daily, so I just pray. "Lord, this is too much for me, but it's not too much for You, so please deal with these thoughts and protect me from the enemy." And He does it every time.
So, I can praise the Lord for all He has and still is doing for me.

Love and hugs

Princess

From: Missy Sent: 17/12/2005 10:23
I stand by what I said.

MISSY.

From: Tim Sent: 16/12/2005 22:23
Rude? Me? By daring to use another scripture to apply the same principle?

If we are going to set a precedent about one particular view (i.e. that we either adhere to it, or we ignore it), then the ramifications vibrate across the whole chapter and book.

I resent being called rude for that. If this is proper Bible study, this is how it should be done.

Tim.

From: SuzukiSVRider Sent: 16/12/2005 18:53
Yes but when you are talking about puncturing skin etc - it does not say "do not place permanent marks on your body" it is translational problems that I am pointing out here.

Steve (not helen!!!!)

From: Gilly Sent: 16/12/2005 18:47
Hi Helen,
Do let common sense prevail here. We may not have had a literal translation of the modern word TATTOO, then again we may have, I'm not qualified to say, but lets be very sure that there were tattoos as we know them today, by WHATEVER name in those days, dye being put under puntured skin. Either way, as I said, it IS a personal choice, not mine, but that of many.
Gilly

From: SuzukiSVRider Sent: 16/12/2005 18:33
Wel as I said earlier there was no such word as tattoo in the times of Leviticus, also it all depends on which translation you read (some say tattoo's some say marks (not permanent marks)) so the way I see it we could argue til we are blue in the face and in the end NO ONE would be right OR wrong. There is no definitive

From: Gilly Sent: 16/12/2005 18:15
Please DO take things in context as I did with Elaine's point. Puncture the skin as in TATTOO. I shall disregard your following advice.
gbu
Gilly

From: SuzukiSVRider Sent: 16/12/2005 18:02
Again my literal take on this - and it could be very harmful to puncture the skin...it simply is down to personal choice...but definately NOT, in my opinion, Unbiblical. - would be - dont have any life saving injections or give blood!!!

Not having a go gilly just observation

From: Gilly Sent: 16/12/2005 18:00
Hi there,
I think that what Tim is saying is similar to my earlier post on this subject, and I also raised the point that other laws in Leviticus....were given to the Jewish Nations .... and do not apply to those with tattoos today.As Christians we are not under these Laws and I don't feel this Scripture is applicable to make the point that those who have tattoos are Unbiblical.
However, God gives wise advice, as Elaine mentioned earlier and it could be very harmful to puncture the skin...it simply is down to personal choice...but definately NOT, in my opinion, Unbiblical.
Sorry Tim, I wasn't meaning to speak for you.
Gilly

From: SuzukiSVRider Sent: 16/12/2005 17:42
Leviticus 19:28
" 'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD

Missy that is exactly what I am saying - the word tattoo is a modern day translation using modern day language. The word tattoo never existed when Leviticus was originally written nor was there any translation to any language in that time that would have came up wit the word tattoo

From: SuzukiSVRider Sent: 16/12/2005 17:40
I have to agree with missy on this one - the question was

Is it wrong to have a tattoo?

Only someone arguing for agruments sakes would bring Pork into the debate!!!

Everything said so far that I read - apart from tims views - have been souly based on that question. Pro's con's etc. Not bringing other issues into the discussion. If it was to go down the same road tim then we would end having a never ending discussion about all the rights and wrongs we do with reference to scripture - the simple fact is tim -

Is it wrong to have a tattoo? I personally dont think so - but i admit I am biased because I already have 3 and am planning more!

Steve

From: Missy Sent: 16/12/2005 17:36
Leviticus 19:28
" 'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD


http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=tattoo&qs_version=31

From: Missy Sent: 16/12/2005 17:35
Tim,
I dont see how its ill-informed at all, we were asked to put up a question for discussion and we did, I found a bible verse relating directly to the topic and brought it in. Thats what we do, we don't bring in other topics on and change the subjects, its rude. What has it got to do with ones own views? Absolutely nothing, thats what.

The discussion is bible based using scripture related directly to the topic.

MISSY.

From: SuzukiSVRider Sent: 16/12/2005 17:32
It says - in most translations I can find - do no mark your body or as the KJV puts it - nor print any marks upon you!! A mark could be something as simple as body paint? face paint? war paint? It does NOT say do not put permanent marks (tattoos) on your body. So if the verse was to be taken as literally as I am looking at it at this moment in time - then you would not wear makeup, fake tan, camoflage, nail varnish, etc AT ALL!!!!!!!