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Post  Admin on Wed 25 Aug 2010, 12:05 pm

I was asked in another Christian Forum post from Brenda: when do I believe The Rapture would be?

1. Before a 7-year Tribulation begins
2. Before the 3 1/2 Great Tribulation begins

3. As the Great Tribulation is ending

I had posted at their Forum, Delphi Jesus Place also:
The Rapture by John Christopher

This morning posted up my reply to her and bringing to our Forum.

Based on my study of the scriptures when I believe the Rapture will be.
1. Before a 7-year Tribulation begins

Below listing some of my reasonings.

Shall We Have Tribulation?
We must answer "Yes!, Will the Church go through
THE Tribulation? my answer is "No!
Tribulation worketh patience because the testing of your faith developes perseverance. (Romans 5:3)
(Rom. 5:3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
The following verses demonstrate that believers living in the Church Age must go through tribulation:
(John 16:33) In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
(Acts 14:22) Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
(1 Thess. 1:6) And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction [tribulation], with joy of the Holy Ghost.
(1 Thess. 3:3-4) That no man should be moved by these afflictions [tribulations]: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto. For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.
(2 Tim. 3:12) Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Jesus tell us we must be born again of the spirit of God.
In John 3: 7
"Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
8 "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

THE RAPTURE -Caught Away
The Rapture - this term is derived from a Latin verb which was used to translate the Greek verb harpaz ("caught up") found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. This Greek verb means to be snatched away, taken away suddenly.

Without controversy the Scriptures present the Rapture of the Church as a comforting and encouraging hope (John 14:1; 1 Thess. 4:18). The glorious reality awaiting those believers who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord is that "we shall not ... sleep" (1 Cor. 15:51). If the Church were destined to pass through the Tribulation, then these words would be of little comfort. Tribulation saints do not have the joyful expectancy of being alive unto the coming of the Lord and being exempt from physical death. To stand for Christ in that day will often mean martyrdom (Rev. 7:14; 13:15; 20:4).

Many speculate when this will be, no one knows: Mathew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
There are many scriptures in the bible with chain references and too many to list so I will use Mathew 24 which is the most widely known and is of my understanding and observations the time is near.
Among other things that are happening today, we see these things have greatly multiplied, increase in famine, earthquakes, and other things mentioned in Mathew 24 particularly verse 14 with satelite TV plus more and more world-wide evangelism.
Not forgetting Iran who want to wipe Israel off the map. We have to go back to the writings about Abraham. The Arabs (the children of Ishmael) who are now Muslims. And the Israelites (the children of Isaac and then Jacob) The Jews and the recipients of Gods promises as recorded in the bible.
The Arabs hate Israel and now under their belief of Mohamed and the Koran, All Jews and all Christians are to be killed because they serve the same God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Most middle East countries are decedents of Ishmael and all hate the same.
Jesus explained in Mathew 24
6 "You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for {those things} must take place, but {that} is not yet the end. 7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8 "But all these things are {merely} the beginning of birth pangs. 9 "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12 "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. 13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. 14 "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

1 Thes 4:13-18
The Bible teaches that there will be a group of people living on the earth who will never SLEEP (see 1 Corinthians 15:51). This means that they will never DIE, they will never die is because they will be CAUGHT UP to heaven.
Jesus promised this and spoke of in
John 14:3
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
1 Corinthians 15:50
50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
55 "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
To reiterate:
THE RAPTURE -Caught Away
We read in verse 52 In a moment in the twinkling of an eye.
The word "MOMENT" means "SPLIT-SECOND" [Note: It is the Greek word "atom" which literally means "uncut." For example, an hour can be cut into 60 minutes and one minute can be cut into 60 seconds. An "atom" is a unit of time that can't be cut anymore because it is such a small unit. Thus "split-second" would be a good translation]. It shall also be "in the twinkling of an eye" (faster than you can blink). This event will take place very rapidly.

The rapture could happen at any time and we need to be ready.

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem


Posts : 66350
Join date : 2008-10-25
Age : 75
Location : Wales UK

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Post  Admin on Mon 23 Aug 2010, 9:58 pm

____The Rapture____
Of all the issues with which the Church has had to grapple since
became a State back in May of 1948, the one that often dominates
the stages
of Christian debate has been the immanence of the Rapture.
We don't know exactly when God will remove us from the
planet, not even Jesus; only the Father knows. However, we will know that our redemption is
at hand by the unfolding of events which precede that main event.
1 Thessalonians + 5:4
But it is not as if you live in the dark, my brothers, for the day
to overtake you like a thief.
We also know that the Rapture will occur before the most
disastrous days
of the tribulation, when God's wrath will engulf the entire
1 Thessalonians + 5:9
God never meant us to experience the Retribution (His wrath),
but to win
salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ
John + 3:36
Anyone who believes in the Son has eternal life, but anyone
who refuses to believe in the Son will never see life; the anger (wrath) of God
stays on him (Jesus Christ)
Before, Not After
The Church will be removed prior to the day the anti-Christ stands
in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem and announces to the entire planet that he is God.
2 Thessalonians + 2:3
(The Day of the Lord) cannot happen until the Great Revolt
has taken place and the Rebel, the Lost One, has appeared. This is the Enemy, the one
who claims to be so much greater than all that men call
god, so much
greater than anything that is worshipped, that he enthrones
himself in God's
sanctuary and claims that he is God.
We know that this infamous event cannot occur while the Church
is still on earth.
2 Thessalonians + 2:6
And you know, too, what is still holding him back from appearing before his appointed time.
Rebellion is at work already, but in secret, and the one
who is holding him back has first to be removed before the Rebel
appears openly
We're Outta Here
Thus, the Holy Spirit must first be withdrawn from the planet
before the anti-Christ can totally reveal himself. Every born-again Christian has been baptized into the Holy Spirit. Therefore, when the Holy Spirit is removed,
God's Church will be taken up as well.
That could happen anytime before ‘the disastrous
abomination fully
reveals the anti-Christ in all his full blown, anti-glory.
Just as the spirit of man drives and determines the condition of
his physical body, so, too, does the Holy Spirit restrain and delay the spirit of anti-Christ from fully accomplishing his death wish for mankind.
Matthew + 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt becomes tasteless,
what can make it salty again? It is good for nothing, and can only be thrown out and tramples underfoot by men. (Jesus Christ)
Mark + 9:49
For everyone will be salted with fire. Salt is a good thing, but if salt
has become insipid, how can you season it again? Have salt in
yourselves and be at peace with one another. (Jesus Christ)
Hebrews + 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.
Matthew + 3:11
He (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with
fire. (John the Baptist)
The fire of God's Spirit is what freshens and seasons us and
preserves our
and mankinds flesh with the salt of our Fathers will and
character. The salt of the Holy Spirit reminds us that we are morally responsible and accountable creatures of God, and not the self-centered,
egocentric deadbeats
Satan has been trying to make of us since he inspired Adam and
Eve to commit the first sin in human history.
While the body (Church) of Christ is still on the planet, Satan
cannot openly deceive mankind, for if he did, we would blow the whistle on him by scripturally exposing his true nature and purpose to the entire world.
Therefore, he will not dare proclaim his counterfeit Divinity while
we are still here. But once we disappear, he will be free to deceive those who are left behind; those who are ready to believe anything he tells them.
Scripture also tells us that he will be instrumental in negotiating a
covenant that ensures peace between Israel and its enemies, and
that the signing of that document will take place on the first day of the tribulation.
If the consummation of that Covenant is done openly for the entire
world to witness, and if we Christians are still on earth, we will most certainly know that the man who brokered it is indeed the anti-Christ, and will do all in our power to tell the world and the Church who he truly is.
If, however, that covenant is negotiated and signed behind closed
doors and out of the reach of media attention, that revelation will not be made
known for from one day to 3½ years after its signing.
Daniel + 9:27
He (the anti-Christ) will make a firm covenant with many for the
space of a week (7-years); and for the space of one half-week (3 ½ years) he will
put a stop to sacrifice and oblation, and on the wing of the temple will be the disastrous abomination until the end, until the doom assigned to the devastator.
The anti-Christ is no dummy- he knows that while the Church is
still on
earth and possesses the electronic ability and clout to reveal the
unfolding of end time prophecy, he must operate covertly for fear of exposing himself
to the scripturally astute and informed watchmen of God.
2 Thessalonians + 2:6
Rebellion is at work already, but in secret, and the one who is
him back has first to be removed before the Rebel appears
This keeps the door open to the possibility that the Rapture could
take place sometime between a possible, secret signing of the
covenant and the event the following scripture foretells.
Matthew + 24:15
So when you see the disastrous abomination, of which the
prophet Daniel
spoke, set up in the Holy Place (Let the reader understand), then
those in Judea must escape to the mountains; if a man is on a housetop, he
must not come down to collect his belongings; if a man is in the fields, he must not turn back to fetch his cloak. Alas for those with child, or with babies at the breast, when those days come.
Pray that you will not have to escape in winter or on a Sabbath. For then there will be great distress such as, until now,
since the world began, there never has been, nor ever will be again.
And if that time had not been shortened, on one would have
survived; but shortened that time shall be for the sake of those who are chosen.
The chosen scripture speaks of here are those, including the
Jews, who will be saved after the Rapture, believers who survive the tribulation.
After the Rapture There will be those left behind who paid some-to-much attention to our ministries while we were here, enough to make them realize they blew it when
God offered them the free gift of salvation through faith in Jesus
They will see the Rapture for what it truly is, and not what the
anti-Christ will try to make, and then force them to believe. As a
consequence, many of these formerly unrealized Christians will be beheaded for not allowing themselves to be branded with the mark of the beast.
The Rapture will be proof positive that what we tried our best to tell them was and is true.
Revelation + 13:16 He (the servant of the beast) compelled everyone -small and great, rich
and poor, slave and citizen- to be branded on the right hand or the
forehead, and made it illegal for anyone to buy or sell anything
unless he had been branded with the name of the beast or with the number of its name.
There is a need for shrewdness here: if anyone is clever enough to
interpret the number of the beast: it is the number of a man, the number 666.
Revelation + 20:4
I saw the souls of all who had been beheaded for having
witnessed for Jesus and for having preached God's word, and those who refused to worship the beast or his statue and would not have the brand-mark on their foreheads
or hands; they came to life, and reigned with Christ for a thousand
Revelation + 14:9
All those who worship the beast and his statue, or have had
themselves branded on the hand or the forehead, will be made to drink the wine of God's
fury which is ready, undiluted, in his cup of anger; in fire and
brimstone they will be tortured in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb and the smoke of their torture will go up forever and ever. There will be no respite, night or day, for those who worshipped the beast or its statue or accepted branding with its name.
The Last Generation
These are indeed spectacular times in which to be living, the times
that try mens souls in the fire of persecution, ecclesiastical and
secular indifference, intimidation, abuse and character assassination.
These are the final days of Satans reign on planet earth, and we are the temples of God's Holy Spiritual salt, preserving the meat of mankinds carnal nature until
such a time that God sees fit to call us home.
1 Corinthians + 15:52
I will tell you something that has been a secret: that we are
not all going to die, but we shall all be changed. This will be
instantaneous, in the twinkling of an eye, when the last trumpet sounds. It will sound, and the dead will be raised, imperishable, and we shall be changed as well, because
our present perishable nature must put on imperishability and this
mortal nature must put on immortality.
Philippians + 3:20
For us, our homeland is in heaven, and from heaven comes the
savior we
are waiting for, the Lord Jesus Christ, and he will transfigure these
wretched bodies of ours into copies of his glorious body. He will do
that by the same power with which he can subdue the whole universe.
1 Thessalonians + 4:16
At the trumpet of God, the voice of the archangel will call out
the command and the Lord himself will come down from heaven; those who have died in
Christ will be the first to rise, and then those of us who are still
alive will be taken up in the clouds, together with them, to meet the Lord in the air.
So we shall stay with the Lord forever. With such thoughts as
these you should comfort one another.
Matthew + 24:39
It will be like this when the Son of Man comes. Then of two
men in the fields one is taken, one left; of two women at the millstone grinding, one is taken, one left. (Jesus Christ)
Luke + 17:34
I tell you, on that night two will be in one bed: one will be
taken, the other left; two women will be grinding corn together; one will be taken, the other left. (Jesus Christ)
When Jesus gave us many signs to look for when calculating the
approximate time of the Rapture. (Matthew + 24:1 thru 44) Given these scriptural indicators, it will more than likely occur either just before the tribulation or
during its first three-and-a-half years.
The anti-Christ and Israel will sign a covenant on the first day of
that seven-year period, which must take place during the generation in which the
Jews return to their homeland.
Daniel + 9:27
He (the anti-Christ) will make a firm covenant with many for the
space of a week (7-years); and for the space of one half-week (3 ½ years)
he will put a stop to sacrifice and oblation, and on the wing of the temple will be
the disastrous abomination until the end, until the doom assigned
to the devastator.
Matthew + 24:34
I tell you solemnly, before this generation has passed away all
these things will have taken place
But as for the day and hour, nobody knows it,
neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, no one but the Father
only. (Jesus Christ)
December 21, 2012
There has been great discussion and speculation amongst timeline

researchers, scientists and eschatologists as of late concerning a
date when an event that takes place only once every 25,800 years could drastically and
cataclysmically change the course of human history.
The Mayan calendar ends on this date, which suggests that time
could also be either altered or done away with altogether. While
none of this
could be the case, the fact remains that on that date the sun, in
conjunction with all sorts of other atmospheric and earthbound
events will align
perfectly with the black hole in the center of our Milky Way galaxy.
Since the Mayans were master star gazers, who built their entire
around the study of celestial bodies, and how they move and align
at certain
points in history, December 21st, 2012 could be a sign to us as
well. For
both Jesus and the prophet Joel also focused and placed import
on outer
spatial events as a way of respectively determining the specific
approximate times of the tribulation and Rapture.
Joel + 3:2
Even on the slaves, men and women, will I pour out my spirit in
days. I will display portents in heaven and on earth
Luke + 21:11
There will be great earthquakes and plagues and famines here
and there.
There will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven, (Jesus
Other Benchmarks
Even Chinese mystics point to December 21, 2012 as being an
historical end
point in their I Ching, a 5000-year-old, revered, if not dubious
means by
which man can tune into his future as well as the future of planet
For it is on that date that the I Ching ends its linear perspective.
The Great Pyramid at Giza in Egypt also contains a calendar,
recorded in
hieroglyphics when the structure was completed and sealed, that
also ends
on December 21, 2012.
The Lakota Sioux Nation of American Indians also teaches a
prophecy which
predicts that on December 21, 2012 terrible things will happen to
planet Earth.
The Countdown
Again, we do not know exactly when the Rapture will translate us
into heaven. However, there are an abundance of signs indicating the approximation, if not pinpointing of that date, not the least of which is the sounding of
Gods mighty trumpet.
For when it blows, we will know our time has arrived and that
Jesus will
appear; that within a matter of days or hours, even seconds, His
angels will
pluck us from planet earth in order that we who believe in the
name of Gods only begotten Son may be transfigured and redeemed into the realms and
mansions of heaven.
1 Thessalonians + 4:16
At the trumpet of God, the voice of the archangel will call out
the command and the Lord himself will come down from heaven; those who have died in Christ will be the first to rise, and then those of us who are still alive
will be taken up in the clouds, together with them, to meet the
Lord in the air. So we shall stay with the Lord forever. With such thoughts as
these you should comfort one another.
Even the Bible Code predicts that planet earth will be struck by a
in the year 2012. And while the worldwide, scientific community
keeps a careful, telescopic eye on and tracks all meteors and such in our general vicinity, the paths of certain comets are very difficult to predict.
They tend
to come out of nowhere and cannot be seen until they near the
suns heat, which ignites and reveals them to those whose job it is to make sure outer space debris and huge, orbiting-to-renegade balls of ice are not on a
collision course with earth.
Revelation + 8:10
The third angel blew his trumpet, and a huge star fell from the
burning like a ball of fire, and it fell on a third of all rivers and
this was the star called Wormwood, and a third of all water was
turned to
bitter wormwood, so that many people died from drinking it.
But dont worry; we wont be here when that happens.
We will be in heaven, where no bad thing can ever happen to us again.
1 Thessalonians + 5:9
God never meant us to experience the Retribution (His wrath),
but to win
salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ
Luke + 12:32 and 34
"There is no need to be afraid, little flock, for it has pleased your
Father to give you the kingdom(34) For where your treasure is,
there will your heart be also."
In the name of Jesus Christ
John Christopher

Posts : 66350
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Age : 75
Location : Wales UK

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