Happy to be Homosexual and yet Christian

I have been watching one of my favourite programmes Eastenders it may not be your choice of soaps but I feel they bring into feature many problems which are faced today in our society and we cannot brush under the carpet as it were what is happening, even maybe in family or close friend situations which God in his infinite wisdom in our lives making us to grow, not judging but be as like Jesus. Yes he has said sin no more but this judgement came from the throne of God.
I am having to examine myself in my attitude toward those who I consider have fallen in my eyes, emphasis in my eyes, how many fingers are pointing to myself when I would condemn others.
What are your thoughts, in our Forum brought over from MSN group we have had some great helps input to get our mindset working.
I intend to take this over to other Forums it is not a popular subject and some places we have the priviledge of being able to promote our space, maybe other members will click to visit us even join maybe to post their thoughts.
Other than that take to their Forum for discussions.
Whatever your concept of God may your conscience be allowed to be your guide, you can even come back as I had done and have a change of mindset.
Blessings
Elaine.

From: Missy Sent: 04/10/2008 21:46
At the end of the day, the bottom line is if your an active homeosexual you will not enter heaven, so if your actively homeosexual then your kidding yourself and being kidded by people around you who are not telling you the truth.

From: Merry20004 Sent: 03/10/2008 22:03
I think I have mentioned this a few times before. One of my best friends is a homosexual, non-practising, who goes to Church and is a valued member of the congregation.
From: Missy Sent: 04/10/2008 10:09
Im sure Merry, I know someone very well also who is but non-christian and lovely.

From: Dunggate Sent: 03/10/2008 21:03
While sorting out the boards and going through each of the discussion
Message 10 of Berties really "hit home" as the saying goes.
When we are on the outside looking in we judge, condemn, and bring scriptures to mind appropriate and YES God does give us all these for our helps.

What gripped me is our attitude! actually to any sin for there is no degree of sin in God's eyes
We can pay lip service to "cast the splinter out of our own eye first" which we think we do....
come alongside the fallen person, .........But do we do as Jesus does?
Put aside our self righteous attitude because this is not the sin which befall us right now!
God forbid but each of us can fall into many of the categories we may judge unwitingly.

I feel to even post up in general board and hopefully others will bump up that we be reminded we all fall short!
This is why we must come along side each other Making sure we are prayerful not to be entrapped with that person and their sin as the scripture says "take heed that we may fall"
1 Corinthians 10:
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.
It is imperitive that we are grounded in the word of God not ONLY ......
but to be walking with Him for without him we will fail.
May we learn to be like Jesus who came to bind up the broken hearted and bind their wounds.
And remember it is in HIS time not ours.
As God leads us we are just servants and maybe brought in the path of someone who has this special need.
May God guide us
Elaine.

From: CurlyBoisvert Sent: 03/10/2008 20:48
It distinctly says in the Bible that God hates perversion. As in all sin we should love the sinner but hate the sin, and we are all sinners. I will never believe that God made man or woman to co habit with same sexes. On saying that I willadmit to knowing a person I went to school with, she was a hermaphrodite ( both sexes ) right from when she was a little girl she had a very deep voice and grew body hair and alwayslooked very manly. For these people life must be very difficult.
June

From: Dunggate Sent: 29/06/2008 14:52
Brandon Bracey's Seed Devotion: My Friend Is A Lesbian
Scripture: Mark 12:31:" ... love your neighbor as yourself".

( I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT IN THIS CLASSIC DEVOTION ME AND THIS WOMAN NEVER HUNG OUT OR ANYTHING, BUT WE DID HAVE A FRIENDLY RELATIONSHIP WHILE I WAS IN SEMINARY)

When I was in my last year of seminary, I had a very interesting classroom discussion. We were talking about homosexuality and the issues that people who lived the lifestyle faced. Now my professor was a huge fan of being pro-choice and living a homosexual lifestyle. She believed that homosexuals have been mistreated in our society and are in the minority. Before you go crazy, you must realize that seminaries are not always like bible colleges. In most bible colleges the believers believe the same thing and are on one accord. Now in some seminaries you may get everybody claiming to be Christian, but yet believe different things about the bible... that includes the professors. I will just say seminary for me was a battleground.

On this particular day in class, my professor brought in a student at the seminary who was a lesbian. Now I will say that at the seminary I attended, everybody professed to be a Christian and was training for ministry. However we often had many different beliefs when it came to scripture. In class this day over 80% of the class was for homosexuality, while I was of the few who believed the lifestyle was sinful.

The young lady talked about her lifestyle and how she often felt abandoned , or left out of the church. I listened and gave my view on how I believe homosexuality is a sin towards the end of class. We had a good discussion about it and I gave her a hug and also thanked her for sharing.

I considered this young lady a friend while I was at seminary. I have not spoken to her since, but we would probably still be friends till this day if we had kept in touch. She was so kind and loving... yet she was a lesbian.

I shared this because Christianity has an image problem. We claim to love everybody... but do we really? How many of us who denounce homosexuality would have chewed her up in class and then spit her out? How many of us would have considered her lifestyle to define every other part of her character? How many of us would truly care that she felt abandoned and mistreated by the church? What I am saying is that we as Christians claim to walk in genuine love for our brethren, but do we really do that? Or simply do we see those who oppose our beliefs as moving targets that need to be converted?

For some of us it is hard to separate the sin from the sinner, but in order to show true love we must do that. Even Jesus hung out with sinners.... but the interesting thing is that the religious people were the ones who wanted to trap him and challenge him.Even politcially, being influential is good, but not to the point of getting a law in place by any means necessary.

I often have asked myself would I be willing to be a friend to somebody who I was opposed to biblically. Can I eat with a homosexual, murderer, or someone who has commited abortion? Would I take the opportunity to share my testimony with them and pray for them ? If I can't then I have truly missed what loving my neighbor as myself is really all about.

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From: EphesiansGal2 Sent: 20/06/2008 23:27
Hi Trev,
That this happened in an Anglican ceremony doesn't surprise me at all. Where I was born and brought up was Anglican country, where there were very few real fellowships or church gatherings where people actually had a real relationship with Jesus. If people keep Jesus at arms length, it is not surprising they find nothing wrong in blessing a gay ceremony or whatever.
If the Word of God is alive in our heart it is a source of misery to commit sin. I know: I have been there. Romans 6:21 says something like..."What fruit had we in those things whereof we are now ashamed?" We cannot live like we used to live, if the Spirit of God is in us. If we have no shame for the things we are doing wrong, that are contrary to the will of God, there has to be something amiss..
I feel that many portions of the church compromise the Gospel in order to accomodate the sinner, but that the error comes from a problem primarily of identification. Jesus was able to associate and spend time with people up to their necks in the grossest sin, because in His holiness, He was free to do so. It presented no problem because these were the people He came for...not for the righteous but to call sinners unto repentance.
In the institutional church, we have to ask ourselves, who is it that we identify with? If we identify with the sinner without the influence of a holy God Who calls us to repentance, we will be apt to permit and encourage them to fall into the same eternal ditch that we are destined for ourselves. But IF we identify with the Lord Jesus, as belonging to Him and as suffering with Him, we will know that in spite of our rootedness in sin itself in time past, we have been released in to holiness by the grace and mercy of a loving God, and by the power of the Holy Spirit, in order to communicate the Gospel to hungry hearts, and to live a life that is pleasing to Him.
Love, Mary

From: trevor_of_bude Sent: 18/06/2008 11:57
further to the discussion on homosexuality in leadership I have pasted an update from
Christian Concern for the nation an excellent group fighting for moral rights in parliament in opposition to the constant erosion of traditional standards of behaviour.

Anglican Ministers Lead in Blurring the Distinction between Marriage and Civil Partnerships




Newspapers broke the story this weekend, 14th to 15th June, that Martin Dudley, rector of St. Bartholomew the Great in London, has performed a ‘wedding’ on 31st May between two Anglican ministers. The service was named a ‘blessing’ of the ministers’ civil partnership, but used liturgy based on the wedding service in the Book of Common Prayer. The two men exchanged vows and rings. They then took communion. The service included hymns and readings and was in defiance of the Church of England’s strict guidance on same-sex ceremonies.




Martin Dudley stated that he was ‘not bothered about the “rules” because they are only guidelines.’ He said that the service was not a marriage ceremony and that he did not ‘offer’ blessing services, but was responding to a personal request from friends.




The Bishop of London, Rev Richard Chartres, said that ‘Services of public blessings for civil partnerships are not authorised in the Church of England or the Diocese of London.…I will be asking the Archdeacon of London to investigate what took place at the church of St Bartholomew the Great.’




News of the ceremony came just days before a summit of the Anglican Church’s conservative bishops and archbishops.




The courageous Bishop of Winchester, Rev Michael Scott-Joynt, said that the service was a wedding ‘in all but name’. ‘Strictly speaking it is not a marriage, but the language is clearly modelled on the marriage service and the occasion is modelled on the marriage service. This clearly flouts Church guidelines and will exacerbate divisions within the Anglican Communion.’ Henry Orombi, the Archbishop of Uganda, said that it was blasphemous.




Andrea Minichiello Williams said that it was extremely disappointing that a church within the Church of England should be leading the way on blurring the distinction between marriage and civil partnerships. ‘It's the role of the church to show that marriage is a lifelong commitment between a man and a woman. The church should set the standard that God has given for marriage and not reflect the direction in which society is going. When the Civil Partnership Act was passed the Government stated quite clearly that this was not marriage but a civil partnership. In this we see two men trying to stretch what the law was intended to mean.’




It is a sad day for the Church when ministers are the ones to initiate the blurring of the distinction between marriage and homosexual partnerships, especially when it is the role of that institution to stand for marriage as the commitment between one man and one woman for life. We should encourage and support our church leaders to be bold and to speak up on this issue.
trev

From: openairpreacherman Sent: 17/06/2008 15:07
Thanks Trevor

Steve

From: trevor_of_bude Sent: 17/06/2008 13:51
I was at a Christian conference a week or two ago and one of the main speakers was Sy Rogers whose testimony about release from homosexual sin is a wonderful demonstration that this learned behavioural sin is no more an uncontrollable tendency than any other sin. All are the result of our choices and all are forgiveable by grace. Jesus dealt with the hypocrisy of the pharisees over sexual sin when He said 'Let the one without sin cast the first stone'. He did not endorse the adulterers sin but pointed out we all fail.
When it comes to homosexual sin within the family I was taught this learned behaviour by a neighbour when about 11 years old and although I had no teaching about sex at the time and had never heard of homosexuality (nor heterosexuality for that matter) I was a fairly new Christian having been converted when only 10 and after a few months of this sex thing I knew it was wrong simply because in my spirit I became troubled and I was able to stop the relationship. My parents would have been amazed had they ever learned about it but I feel sure they would have continued to care and support me.
Within the church someone who engages in wrong sexual relationships as a persistent lifestyle should be disciplined by the church but only after a consistent loving and helpful explanation of things to the person concerned and ONLY if the church also applies discipline to the other wrong lifestyles as shown in 1 corinthians 6. So we do need to be careful!

verse 9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God'

If we put out of our churches all the aduterers as defined by Jesus in matthew 6 (thoughts are as bad as action), then most of us would be put out, then add the idolators (ie defined as covetousness - wanting what we dont have) then most home owners/makers would be put out, thieves (people who steal time and property from their employers or fail to be honest in their tax returns) out go another lot. then the greedy (who eat too much) the slanderers (who gossip and destroy character) etc. Soon there would be only you and I in the church and I'm not sure about your thought life!

Yes I agree people in leadership must not be living in a sexually sinful relationship but lets get a sense of perspective on this when dealing with the ordinary struggling and new christians. Sanctification is not instant but a gradual process as the Holy Spirit changes lifestyles attitudes and practices. We need to encourage change, pray for it and love people despite their faults and even when leaders fall we should take the responsibility of leadership off their shoulders till lifestyle practices change - whether they like it or not leaders are servants of the church and marred leadership mars church life).

We teach sin is wrong but is also forgiven to the repentant who dont just say sorry but endeavor to change their lifestyle.

From: EphesiansGal2 Sent: 17/06/2008 07:54
God bless you Steve, always a comfort to know there are others with the same heart to reach the ones that Jesus loves, and that everyone else forgot.
Looking forward to getting to know you.
Love in Him
Mary

From: EphesiansGal2 Sent: 17/06/2008 07:52
Hi Elaine, blessings sis.
If there is one thing we all as Christians have in common, it is that we don't agree....hehehe. It is a good subject in itself but I truly feel we are doing well in providing forums etc where we can air our differences in order to come to unity. Tis a dangerous unity that comes from deliberate denial of who we really are and we can best get over that by sharing honestly in the love of God, what we are going through, what He has shown us, and what things we don't understand. Great to find you are doing just that at Worldwide Christians: I am touched by some of the recent posts and praise the Lord for the ability to be open without fear of being bashed.
On the subject of this thread, there is a whole difference between the practising homosexual who calls himself Christian, and the one who confesses his weakness as a born again believer but remains bodily clean. Paul said "O wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from the body of this death"...it is just that, a body of death. And as others have rightly said already, sin is sin in God's eyes, and none of us is perfect.
I believe God brings us to a point of challenge in loving others: we love the Lord, and want to do His will....but the means to do that escapes us beyond what is humanly possible and what offends us in the narrow religious mindset that we are all apt to hide behind. So then He brings us into contact with people that pose us real problems, so we can understand at last the nature of His power, and that there is no one, not even one, that He doesn't love with an everlasting love.
See you later!
much love from Mary

From: openairpreacherman Sent: 17/06/2008 05:14
Hi Mary, Its great to hear of your work with the homeless. The Lord had led me to do similar work.

God bless you.

Steve

From: Dunggate Sent: 17/06/2008 00:24
Good to see your finding your way around Mary and posting
MSN quite different to what your used to.
Just to acknowledge your post and appreciate I know there is a lot of Christians out there on the streets who has buckled under the weight which needs the love of God shown them.
We don't always agree but mostly do and this instance we do
Elaine.

From: EphesiansGal2 Sent: 16/06/2008 09:07
Hi Steve and all,
I believe there are only 2 kinds of people: saved and unsaved, and that if we are born again, spiritual fellowship is only possible with those who are saved.
Fellowship of other kinds needs to be defined before the church can start making new rules about who to associate with and who not to associate with, in my opinion. I like to follow the example of Jesus and be regarded as a "friend of sinners" because that is where the harvest field is.
When I began my homeless ministry I was astonished at how many Christians I found out there on the street. Yes, many have sought comfort in drink and drugs and are not "disciplined" according to our church rules, so they are often involved in unwise relationships, on the basis that two bodies sleeping outside have a better chance of survival in the cold weather. I feel that there are always reasons why people appear to live lives in sin and unless we have been "down there" ourselves, we probably don't know how far we could fall personally. Let he who thinks he stands, take care lest he fall.
My angle is that sin of any kind is a destructive process that God wants us free of for our own good. But it is clear from the scriptures that we are only empowered to mortify the deeds of the flesh through the Spirit of God. If by any other means, it will come to nothing and we will be back to square one before long.
My focus and intention is to make sure that people are genuinely born again, and that when they are born again they receive the baptism with the Holy Ghost, or at least know about it...then they are in with a fighting chance.
God showed me once a picture of a man whose legs were bent under the weight of a load he was carrying. I understood the spiritual point immediately: He was telling me, that people find it hard to walk upright while carrying heavy burdens. So easy for us who have everything to live for and all of our needs supplied to make a fair show of a holy lifestyle.
Praise the Lord He is full of love, mercy and compassion, and understands all of our trials, and who looks with kind eyes on the heart of every man or woman, and not on the effects of their sorry mistakes.
Much love in Jesus
Mary xx

From: openairpreacherman Sent: 15/06/2008 08:14
On the question of homosexuality in the family. This adds another complication to the mix.

If they are unbelievers or believers then we are to show christian love and remember that we have a duty to be a christian example to them. We are to continue in normal family relationships but there can be no spiritual dimension to the relationship.


God bless

Steve

From: openairpreacherman Sent: 15/06/2008 08:06
Just one point that might help the discussion.

Christ said...
Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Then later he says...
Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Firstly the context is brotherhood relationships in the kingdom rather than the church but l feel that the principles carry over into the church.

In this passage Christ tells us to be discerning in v6 but in v1 he is saying we are not to be judgemental or condemning of our brother. However we as christian must be discerning of those people that we meet. We can only avoid evil men (Christ calls them dogs v6) if we exercise discernment. What we are not allowed to do is to be unjustly condemning of people who live wicked lives.

Christ reminds the children of the kingdom that the kingdom is based or righteous judgement and those who have been judgemental (that is harsh in their judgement) will be dealt with harshly in return.


On another point there is a difference between how we would deal with christians an non-christians. In this case they were not christians. The passages l quoted were relevant only to Christians. We cannot hold non christians responsible to live a christian life style. They need to hear the Gospel and when they believe in Christ he will change them. Its not our responsibility to try to reform peoples lives. Our Job is top preach Christ only he can change them.

God bless
Steve.

From: Dunggate Sent: 15/06/2008 00:27
I agree with you totally Steve message 12 we do not fellowship as it were as felolwship as is the Unity of Christ We are to examine i.e. THE BODY
although you didn't give us the Ephesian scriptures which you referred to which we could have examine and looked to ..But
1 Corinthians 10:15-22 1
5 I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say. 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. 18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? 19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? 20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. 21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. 22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealous:ny? are we stronger than he?
This seems appropriate to what you are conveying but
what I believe is saying....to my heart of those outside of .Christ let us examine this type of scripture is speaking to Israel. From my understanding Christ came to his own i.e. Jerusalem who rejected Him,paul here is saying to deliver us from the evil one
, "Deliver us from the evil one." Paul here identified such things as idol feasts at a theater where the forces of Satan are operative.
Sorry this is hard for me to type as I am getting inserts in places se not appropriate in my typingt so hopefully what I am trying to convey is coming through. The word of God is like a puzzle we have to be spirit lead to get thI am without doubt pieces into place, I do not profess to know it all but my bottom line will always be God is love and the progession of that love no man can merit or number. Yes there is judgement and this has to be laid at the feet of Christ we are to love.
Many may disagree with what I say but Jesus has taught me to love it has not been an easy walk with many trials which I have not written testimony to and i without doubt others could also testfy to the love of God in their walk.
The very bones of the New Testament speaks to my heart first is THE love. Years agol I was apt to say hell fire and brimstone and yes I agree at times God wo speak to our heart to bring this but more than I see the love of God in all things I will lolve above all and let God be the judge.
Elaine

From: inapickle22 Sent: 15/06/2008 00:19
Forgot to add ... this was not my church it happened in... sad to say.
I pray that we will show His love towards all people cos all need His love
in them to change.

From: Emma8921 Sent: 14/06/2008 19:58
i have thought about this question and lyn the testimony you gave was a wonderful way of demonstrating Gods love yes we love the people regardless of their life styles i wouldent hesatate whether it was a friend or relative to welcome and befriend them and let God love do the work just like christ we all need to give these people a chance love them regardless yes God hates all sin but God loves all people and i belive we as Gods children should all open our homes and hearts to homesexuals and allow them to see God in us and while not condoning or saying its ok living the life style they are show them love if all christians turn their back on them how will they ever open their hearts to the love of God we here on earth to demonstrate the true love of our heavenly father

hope i make sence im just ramberling but thats my opinion

From: Bertie2006 Sent: 14/06/2008 17:57
What a great outcome Lyn, there are far to many "mature" Christians around that try to tie others down to time tables, I know i have come across it and now i know you have, when you start on the road with Jesus the last thing you need is people saying not maturing fast enough, or you should have been further along than you are, and your not progressing.
All power to this church Lyn, God Bless there patience and understanding.
Bertie

From: inapickle22 Sent: 14/06/2008 17:36
Going back to the senario in message 8, I will tell you the next
part of this true story. After 3 weeks of going to the church, they
were asked to leave because they hadn't changed their lifestyle.
What is sad is that cos their's was an outward sin, they were only
given 3 weeks to change and accept Jesus, whereas any other person
is allowed an unlimited time to become christians.
This couple actually did leave the church and never went back there.
However, after another 2 years, they decided to try another church.
This church, came beside them, loved them and spoke to them about
God, giving them time to know about Jesus and His love and teachings.
It took 18 months for the couple to realise that they were sinning and
both accepted Jesus as their Saviour, and now live seperately, growing
in Jesus' love and power.
I'm so glad this church didn't give up on them and showed compassion.
To me, this is how we are to relate to all regardless of sexuality, race, disability etc. They were all created by God and God forgives all who
come to Him, and He never gives up on them .. cos God don't make junk.
From: Bertie2006 Sent: 14/06/2008 17:48
AMEN

From: CurlyBoisvert Sent: 14/06/2008 13:17
I do not know where it says any sin is worse than another. Indeed it does say that even to think bad is a sin. We should not classify any sin worse than another, we are told NOT TO JUDGE or we will be judged accordingly.

From: Bertie2006 Sent: 14/06/2008 04:41
Hello Steve,
I understand what the Bible says and how we should apply it, but the question was could you and how would you apply it to, lets say your son/daughter.

True Christians are not allowed to have fellowship with people in major sin, but there again that does not stop me talking to them either in the work envirement or walking through the town.

Could you please tell me what major sin is, to my mind sin is sin if you are aware that it is wrong in the eye's of God.
Bertie

From: openairpreacherman Sent: 14/06/2008 02:40
Hi Elaine.

I speak with drug addicts, homosexuals and prostitutes when l go out with the Mission onto the streets. We have a close friendship but there is no 'fellowship'.

True Paul was speaking about Heretics in the passage l quoted but l think that the principles of speaking reproof twice and then shunning the person who rejects the reproof as applicable to all cases of sin including homosexuality.

The other passage in Ephesians is much more clear in discribing the Christians response to sin.

Paul says...
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

Christians are not able to have fellowship with people who are in major sin. It is usually best to be outspoken in love and not 'pussyfoot around' wringing our hands.

God bless you

Steve