Happy to be Homosexual and yet Christian

From: Dunggate Sent: 13/06/2008 18:19
It was good that Mary my friend and dear sister in Jesus have been able to spend time together where we discussed many issues and this Focus was one of them covered.

I am glad to hear that your Church have also been examining Lyn for I do see this as an topic and how we handle will also cover many other problems which we may have to handle.

As you said Bertie if it was someone in our own family, we know the scriptures which Steve brought but could we tell them twice then have nothing more to do with them?
Steve this scripture is for a heretic it is needful for us to examine the scriptures which we use don't you agree. Titus was dealing with those who were for the Mosaic rites and ceremonies, and would have them continued in the church, though by the gospel and the coming of Christ they were superseded and done away, this is to be referred to all those foolish questions and genealogies, as well as those strivings about the law. The previous verses in Titus we note : Be Careful to Maintain Good Works. verse 1 "to be ready to every good work, 2to speak evil of no man".

I was a leader in Al Anon group in my hometown many years ago when a transvestite in full dress came to the meeting, I don't know if it was a "setup" to see if I was material as leader, I was a non Christian at the time and found no difficulty in treating this person like any other in the room other than I wasn't sure to call him he or she thankfully the name Janet I think he gave.
Using the Steps and Traditions set out by AA Group which incidently I have learned later that it is a Christian foundation set up by Bill Wilson through his encounter with God. According to Bill W, while lying in bed depressed and despairing, he cried out, "I'll do anything! Anything at all! If there be a God, let Him show Himself!".He then had the sensation of a bright light, a feeling of ecstasy, and a new serenity. He never drank again for the remainder of his life. Previous to this he had joinedThe Oxford Group which was a Christian organization founded by American Christian missionary Dr. Frank Buchman. Although AA is not associated with any denomination to avoid controversy, that they can focus in unity for the cause of helping.

My thoughts are there is no degree with sin, in God's eyes sin is sin and I don't believe we can catagorise which is the greater. For all of us sin and fall short. As Bertie said: How many of us as Christians have fallen for the sins of the flesh. And no Bertie you hadn't given the impression that you were.

I think we all agree that we first Love as Jesus has commanded, also as Jessie quoted the bible says love covers a multitude of sins. This was another verse of scripture which Mary and I looked into but it isn 't for this thread.
We don't condone or encourage in any way and in the leading of the Holy spirit would be able to minister to a person or persons whether of homosexual, lesbian or alcoholic for another example or any other and as June quoted Jesus said Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
May the grace and love of God shine through in our lives and pray for such as God leads us.

Elaine.

From: Bertie2006 Sent: 13/06/2008 13:06
I still don't know what my answer to your question is on this one Elaine, it would have been easier if you had not said a member of my own family, I think that makes me a hypocrite, the bible is quite clear in what it says about homosexuality, but could i follow this line with my own flesh and blood, to be honest i don't think i could.

I believe that there are some, who choose to be homosexuals for what reason they alone know, and to me they are sinners, but i also believe that others have no choice in this matter it is there makeup.

I am more inclined to follow Jessie's way of thinking on this issue, and especially the comment from Jesus Himself,

'Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone'

How many of us as Christians have fallen for the sins of the flesh, committed adultery, live in ungodly relationships, and even after asking forgiveness from God go out and do it all again, am i really the only hypocrite around.

I personally have not committed the sins of the flesh for a long time now, not entirely without help, and that has been the easy part, but i have committed the sin of thinking about the one i want to be with that is the hard part and only God can help with this.

Can you imagine being truly homosexual, denying yourself but having these thoughts, emotions continually in your mind that would be truly hard and painful for them. Can i or you see what is in there hearts, are we in a position to judge, can we condemn them, i think not, and like Jessie i will pray for them, but let the Lord see into there hearts, let the Lord condemn, let the Lord be there judge.

Just my crazy mixed up thoughts on this matter
Bertie
P.S Just in case i have given the wrong impression i am not homosexual

From: CurlyBoisvert Sent: 13/06/2008 11:53
It is a difficult question but I have to say I have some homosexual friends. I love the people but hate the sin and I believe it is for God to deal with. As the bible say's 'he who is without sin, cast the first stone'

From: inapickle22 Sent: 13/06/2008 11:53
What are your thoughts on gays and lesbians being in church?
Do they have a part to play? What would you do if a gay couple
came into your church?
Is the church for all? Would you throw them out?
What are your thoughts?
This was a topic we discussed in church last week and there
seems to be many different views to it.
I tried to answer as honestly as I could tho I must admit it's
not a subject I know a lot about cos none of my friends are gay.
That doesn't mean I wouldn't be friends with one tho cos I know
Jesus wants us to hate the sin yet love the sinner.
If the couple started coming to the church, I would hope and pray
that first they would be shown love, then as they start to learn
about God and His Word, that they will see the way they are living
is wrong. However, I don't think we must expect them to accept the
Word of God straight away or they must get out of the church .. cos
those who aren't gay probably went to church many times before
accepting the message of salvation etc.
Jesus didn't turn anyone away, and He set this example for us to
follow, right? As believers however, we have a responsibility to everyone
to not only set a good example for them to follow, but to teach them what
is right and wrong in God's eyes.
This senario actually happened and I will tell you later what actually
happened to them, but will let you answer so far.

From: Jessie¡ Sent: 13/06/2008 11:08
i agree that steve has some strong scriptures there ..i think we should always teach our children the truth from an early age ..but i speak from experience here as my own daughter went badly off the rails and went to live with a bouncer!...she was only 17....i sought the Lord as how to deal with it with much pray and fasting ....
i think we have to start with love cos thats what God did with us ...and the bible says that love covers a multitude of sins .
i would not allow them to stay together under my roof
my son is not saved but i treat him as a beloved son ..why should it be any different if he was a homosexual?....jesus died for sinners and this is part of sin ....
i have a friend who was a christian and has gone down this road even though he has a lovely wife and three children ...he knows he;s in a mess i just feel so sorry for him and treat him with love
dont think for one minute i condone any sin ..but such was some of you but ye have been washed ...never forget where we have come from .
and pray for your children with all you heart continually that God will save them .......
i must admit that i have no time for people who call themselves gay christians ....no such thing ....if you are going to live like that leave God out of it ....jessie

From: inapickle22 Sent: 13/06/2008 09:32
Let me come back on this when I have a little more time.
Thanks for bumping it up Elaine.
Lyn

From: openairpreacherman Sent: 13/06/2008 07:08
The Paul to Titus seem to be appropriate here.

Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

I feel the issue of Homosexuality is as serious a heresy. Paul says to Titus, warn then firmly and then warn them again and if there is no repentance cease to have fellowship with them.

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

Steve

From: Dunggate Sent: 12/06/2008 23:57
I feel it is one of the biggies one can face these days as everyone coming out of the closet as it is said even in the leaders of the church for example but lets bring it closer to home something we would have to deal with.
My initial take on this would be absolute shock horror and Oh Lord why me and mine.
Then I would have to say ok God you will work this out for good always in my life, and most probably in all events for my perfecting or maybe how I handle to minister to that person.
Like you Bertie need to prayerfully think how would Jesus have us handle.
Elaine

From: Bertie2006 Sent: 12/06/2008 23:35
Wow Elaine put us on the spot, this will take a few days of prayer and guidence to give a truthful response , i shall be back to this one.
Bertie

From: Dunggate (Original Message) Sent: 12/06/2008 23:12
How we deal with it like Jesus

How to deal with homosexuality if it came into your immediate family life.
We certainly see how things are developing into the last days where it is said "as in the days of Noah" Luke 17

I feel this would be a good discussion and get us thinking in how would Jesus have us handle if your son/daughter who maybe lives at home or come to stay with their partner.
Do you .....
A send them away with the scriptures which they know you abide by
B invite them stay but lay down the laws of you must not under my roof
C Let go let God deal with but state your views
D other?
Elaine

From: Missy Sent: 21/09/2008 09:11
I do not see why belivbers should not marry unbelievers, if its the will of God then the other would surely be converted. I was not born again when I married, and 6 years later here I am, we had no counsel either, but many financial problems.
As for having to have gay leader or no leader, Id choose none, Id choose to have service in my front room with whoever wanted to attend, we don't need church building for Holy Spirit to be there. People must take a stand for Jesus.

MISSY.

From: trevor_of_bude Sent: 18/09/2008 23:25
The issue of so-called gay relationships is currently tearing the Church of England apart because gay rights in leadership have managed to worm their way into the highest echelons of power. We have a gay vicar near us and it has severely damaged churches in the area. but they were told if they didnt take the man suggested they could be years without a leader.

Also the question of couples either living together or having affairs is a very relevant one to this area. We have a number of new Christians who have been living together though unmarried and others who have married unbelivers. They couples whowere together before conversion have been counselled over their relationship and advised to marry. I would love to say the result was happy chritian marriages but in truth there have been several separations and even divorces because they could not cope with the change in commitment. Where Christians have married unbelievers (and the leadership will not support such weddings) they have almost alway fallen apart, and even those that havent separated have had dificulties in their relationship, indeed I can only think of one couple who married unequally who have stood the test of time and the husband was actually converted soon after their wedding.

We are learning not to push new Christians into trying to put their relationships on a proper basis until God reveals to them that they should. bertie must live in a very traditional area to have to search to find christians who are not living in the way they should. Our society is so fragmented that of those under 40 in our fellowship most have been through various partners before (and some after) conversion. Holiness is gradual process.

From: Bertie2006 Sent: 18/09/2008 14:59
This message has been deleted by the author.
From: Missy Sent: 18/09/2008 19:34
Good point Bertie and bless you for being so open.

However my answer would have been NO based on someone who is actively homeosexual and carries on as though its ok. I would never be rude to anyone no matter who they were but I would be honest and tell them what the bible says did the situation arise. I don't think thats judging but do belive it would be grounds for God to judge me if I didnt.I also think its wrong to continually commit any sin, what Im saying is we're all sinners, but we have to stop what we're doing wrong and repent. There fore I still believe an active homeosexual person will not enter heaven, for the sole reason the bible says so.

Personally I know one christian couple living together outside of marraige, but I wouldnt judge.

MISSY.

From: trevor_of_bude Sent: 18/09/2008 14:23
If only things were that simple!

The strict answer to the question is YES you can be a christian and be homosexual and yes you can engage in the practice of homosexuality and still be a christian as you can sin in other ways and still be a christian.

The Principle of Holy Living is a process. The nearer we grow towards God and the more we give the Holy Spirit access to our lives the more sin will be revealed and dealt with and homosexuality is not a sin but homosexual activity is. Many people learn homosexual behaviour and some have a natural leaning towards it in the same way as some people have a natural affinity with lying or adultery or other sins. Snactification is a graual process learnt through the Word and listening to what God says.

Let him that stole steal no more, flee adultery and many other commands given to Christians show that they are not perfect when born again but they are Christians! In terms of leadership stricter requirements are made and practising homosexuals ought not to be appointed into leadership of churches in the same way as adulterers heavy drinker short-tempered etc are disallowed.

But of course that simply means we are in breach of the law which protects the rights of everyone except bible believing Christains!

From: Missy Sent: 17/09/2008 10:09
If you are actively homeosexual then NO. The bible clearly says these people will NOT enter heaven, so what would be the point?
I believe this is a temptation like any other and as a true christian you would fight it, we know people leave this lifestyle and become born again and marry so it is possible. If you truly seek the Lord and give him these temptations he will strengthen you to stand up against this temptation and say no.
This is a little trick of satan, wanting people to think they can do whatever they want and still enter the kingdom of God.
You should have put this on general Lane, it should be seen and discussed!

MISSY.

Happy to be Homosexual and yet Christian

At the moment is in the media Ray Bolz has announced
Quote "Happy to be Homosexual and yet Christian"
The bible shows us this is a sin.
Also do not judge!

We have had this before in other discussion as another phrasing I will combine both replies bringing over from our MSNGroup
But

Can we get to grips with this
in on how God deals with this and us?
Elaine