Focus : Dealing with death

I remember what I was searching for on Google Dr. Procash Testimony 


Dr Procash Testimony

Bringing this back up as Glad to say Missy have now joined with me at Jesus' Place.
No coincidence with God. I was searching for something on Google and was amazed to see WWC in a thread also mentioned name Missy which brought me here to this thread.

From: Nutty_and_Crazy_Bloke Sent: 11/12/2005 00:13
Dear Missy,

Although i myself am not Roman catholic, i go each year on a pillagramage to Lourdes in the south of France. This site is said to be where Holy Mary appeared 14 times to a young girl, giving instructions to her on what she wanted done with the area.

I myself still question the purpose and reasons for prayer to Mary. From what i understand, prayers directed at her are said in order that she might "have a word" with her son Jesus. Almost as if there is better chance of the prayer being answered than prayering striaght to Jesus, or God. I don't understand this, and i'm sure there will be strong argument for both sides.

THe point i raise is that there is no other place that i know of that holds such an amamzing holiness, fellowship, care, and love. Although i don't understand, or nessary beileve in what is done or how its done, it is clear to me God works there, though everyone. I know of many who carry that week with them through the year, adn return once more the following year. Regardless of the praying to Mary or to Jesus, God Works mirclares there every mintue of the day.

So that this thread is not hi-jacked or goes totaly off point, i will conclude with the comment that poeple there who are dieing, have lost loved ones, or fear of it, gain great comfort from the week.

God bless

NCB
From: Missy Sent: 11/12/2005 13:51
Thats all very well Nutty. To find comfort through whatever they can, the point I make is that THE REAL HEALER and THE REAL SAVER are NOT forgotten here. That Mary is seen as The mother of Jesus, she cannot do anything.


MISSY.
From: Dunggate Sent: 11/12/2005 14:28
Just adding a thought :
EVERYONE
Mary included had and has to receive Salvation through her Son Christ Jesus.
We are but vessels each of us It is God himself is the healer and Christ our Saviour.

Elaine.
From: hope833 Sent: 13/12/2005 03:49
dealth


you remember when a child comes into this world what a miracle it is a new creation that god is every part off.

From: Missy Sent: 10/12/2005 09:53
Dear Gilly and Helen,
Thanks again for sharing personal stories.


However Gilly, I have to be honest with you here and say that................

Even though I understand why praying is such a comfort to people after losing a loved one I personally don't see the point. They make their decision where they go while here on this earth, the bible clearly says this. Once they are gone we can do nothing.
Also there is nothing in the bible to say purgatory exists.

Also catholics do worship to Mary, I have had this conversation with people many times who deny this (Im not saying you personally do) but they do. They light candles to kneel with beads with her face on and say the Rosary. Also how many spend thousands travelling to Medugorie in the hope of meeting her presence? Praying and singing to her for days on end. And also I would like to add when their prayers are answered she IS given the Glory. I know this from first hand experience.

MISSY.

From: Rock Child of God Sent: 09/12/2005 17:31
Sorry my brothers & sisters in Christ, I missed this post as I was working on my website to testify about God and Jesus.

Death...I find it easier to deal with now I have Jesus in my life. It's funny but death never really affected me until I was older. I remember from being a child people and family dying, but it just didn't mean anything as when I was a child, I believed in God so much so, I just believed people died and went to heaven to be with Jesus, no doubts, no hell except for really bad people. But I was a child.

My Grandma (Nan she hated grandma) was saved before she died in 1992, she was saved, she witnessed to me, she stood in the gap, yet I wouldn't budge from satanism! She had cancer and hung on longer than the doctors said, she passed on the 1st of April 1992. It is only now, that I am saved I can she the irony and know she is in a better place, she saw Jesus before she died and she always loved a joke! I saw her, in a vision, just after I was saved. Thankyou Jesus and praise you.

My Grandad died exactly 4 months earlier, on 1st Jan 1992, I can't speak about him and i'm sure he's not in heaven, because of something that happened still I will not know until the rapture/I go home. I have a peace though, a peace Jesus gave me. Praise Jesus.

My friend died, she killed herself as she was hooked on heroin, she couldn't get off it and the services to help her failed to do their duty, can't go into the full story on here for legal reasons. But my Auntie (her mum - she not really my auntie just my mums friend but i've always called her aubtie) is a mess, still despite it being 1997. Heroin is fron the bowels of hell.

I have lost other friends and enemies (both I felt sad about), that's why I realise it's so important to outreach to people, even if they spit in your face as we never know what goes thrugh their mind in the final moments. Freind or Foe, Let them know, about the love of Jesus.

Also my friend from church had a vision given to her by God about her sisters little boy who was killed (knocked down) - she said he was smiling and happy, his teeth where perfect (he had bad teeth before he went to live with Jesus).

God Bless all of you who have suffered lossMay Jesus give you peace.
Love In Jesus, Helen xxx

From: Missy Sent: 09/12/2005 16:33
Thanks to Elaine and Nutty for sharing.
From: Gilly Sent: 09/12/2005 17:02
Thanks NCB and Elaine for sharing so deeply. It is only natural that we can be angry at God when one of our loved ones are taken from us. He does understand how we love and miss them.
Elaine can I share some of my own beliefs at praying for the dead....but first I will share a deeply personal experience I had a few days after my brother's death, which was sudden, painful and premature.....however, my brother,a Roman Catholic, shared with myself in the last months of his young life that having been a backslider and sinner of many years, he had 'made his peace with God'. We had many deep conversations about our faith and although his hope remained he would live, he had prepared for his death.....his sins however were many and he recognised that he needed as much prayer and instruction as I could give. He himself, was still grieving our father's death only a year previously.
When he died, the shock and pain were evident. I knew how deeply that affected all the family who had gathered to say goodbye at the hospital, none of whom were saved. Such was their shock, that not one of them felt they could say their last goodbyes in person at the undertakers. This again, is understandable.....they prefered to keep their own precious last memories of him. His wife and myself both went to say our last farewell and in the depth of our grief we were so blessed that we did.
Just that morning, whilst praying and grieving deeply and privately for my brother.......I saw my brother. No, not actually or physically, I knew it was a picture in my mind given to me by God in the Spiritual realm.....but as clear as day I saw my brother's face as I had never seen him before. He seemed younger, about 30ish, and his face just beamed with a pure ecstacy and contentment and peace. The words I heard I shall NEVER forget.....'Don't cry.....If you knew how beautiful it is here you would never be sad or cry again'.....and then the vision was gone. Put it down to grief overwhelming me, but I KNEW that this comfort had come from God. I knew it wasn't my brother come back from Heaven, because I know of course that the door to Heaven is ONEway. I do believe, though, that in a way I could not explain, God had given me this comfort and I believe my brother is in Heaven. I had doubted this because as I said, his sins had been many.
When my sister-in-law and I saw him later that day to say our final goodbyes, how glad we were that we went. His face was now peaceful and he was smiling a smile that could only have come from one who was in the Lord's presence. My testimony was of great comfort to the remainder of my family, despite their lack of belief at that time.
I still offer prayer for my brother and all my dear ones I have lost. It keeps me in communication with them and keeps their memory alive. We all ,in my family, share many happy times talking about our loved ones and it keeps that special spiritual bonding alive. Through the Spirit they still remain a part of us in 'the one body'.
No Christian can deny the Spirit of communication between the living, and since death, for those who die in faith and grace, why should they be cut off from us Spiritually and shut out from the benefits of prayer which they may be in need of.
As a Catholic, I believe in purgatory(a purification after death) and ask that God would have mercy upon my loved ones at this time of purification. This purification is neccessary for them to become holy (spotless pure and clean) to enter Heaven where not even the blemish of sin is.
From the earliest of Church Councils (Council of Trent which states that purgatory does exist), a distinction was made between WORSHIP and HONOUR. Catholics believe that WORSHIP belongs to God alone. But we as Catholics HONOUR these Saints who have gone before us as a sign of faith and victory in living the Christian life.
Non Catholics DO seem to have difficulty that we appear to pray to the Saints and to Mary. This 'PRAYING TO' to them appears to indicate a worship of the Saints to them....instead of to God alone. However, we, as the very first Christians, define prayer as CONVERSATION, as in conversation with GOD. Conversation of any kind albeit, talking, yelling, conversation generally needs SOMEONE for the conversation to be directed at.....in other words......one talks to SOMEONE. So praying to God, a Saint or The Virgin Mary indicates simply the DIRECTION of prayer communication. It is more a matter of grammar and understanding communication that acknowledges the worship of the receiver. We ASK the Saints for intercession to God as they are in His presence. We do not pray to WORSHIP them. That alone is for God.
Equally, I think that Scripture can be a source of great comfort for those whose spouse dies as an Unbeliever. As a Catholic, I still offer prayer for all the dearly departed.
1Cor 7:14
1Cor 15:42-44
1Thess 4:15-18
The one thing I do KNOW for sure, is that it is here, in this life, that we should deal with our eternal life. It gives us the absoloute ASSURANCE of the Kingdom to come, and it also gives our loved ones we leave behind, the comfort that they KNOW where we are when we leave them, and they KNOW who we are with.
I sincerly pray that all who grieve will find the comfort and strength of Our Loving Father and find the peace and the joy that only comes when we give our hearts to The Lord Jesus Christ.
gbu
Gilly

From: Dunggate Sent: 09/12/2005 15:42
Thanks NCB as you have made me feel so much better by explaining how it was for you.
As my writings have only been from my personal experiences also.
God Bless you.
Elaine.
From: Dunggate Sent: 09/12/2005 15:47
As I explained previously My Mum is a Christian so it was very different when she died.
Of course I was sad we were close and shared the love of Jesus. But I was joyous that now she was out of all her pain and suffering and God had granted her prayer, for a long time after my Dad had died she continued to ask God to take her home.
I took care of the funeral arrangements and had it as Mum would have wanted, remembering she said give me flowers while I am alive don't waste your money on them when I die I won't see them or smell them. So I asked that money would be donated to two of her favourite charities. I need not mention the one but I feel to say about The Jabez Orphanage in Uganda who Ministers to the pygmy tribes. Mum being nicknamed titch as she was so little. There is a lengthy testimony attached to this also so I will try to just be brief.
The day Mum had the prophetic word that Dad was in heaven we had a guest Minister Dr. Procash from India who had a wonderful testimony of how he became a Dr but dropped it to become a Minister.For those of you unaware there is a cast system in India, and he was the lesser of his brothers who had a good education. His testimony was how the Lord spoke to him from the old Testament 1 Ch 4:9 And Jabez was more honourable than his brethren: and his mother called his name Jabez, saying, Because I bare him with sorrow.
I appreciate much of what I am saying here involves a testimony, but this is to show you how blessed we were of God. Many years later a call was put out in my Church to help A Unganda Ministry Jabez homes and I knew God was calling me to offer my help.
Back to the Funeral Service.
The Pastor who took the service was new to me and I asked that my Mothers service be and evangelist outreach to raised eybrows. Ther Sermon taken was Jer 12:5 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan. The funeral was well attended as we come from a large extended family, who had great respect for both Dad and Mum.
How does this tie in you may ask. My fathers family and friends were all gamblers connected with horses either owning them or bookies or gamblers. How amazing is our God. I pray that God will speak to their hearts as they think on the funeral or discuss these departed.
I claim that Gods word will not return empty that their hearts will be softened and they too will bow the knee before The Lord as their Saviour.
So you see although there was saddness there was much joy in my heart that even to her death Mum continued to do the Lords work for she evangelised even although housebound to all who entered the home.

Elaine.

From: Nutty_and_Crazy_Bloke Sent: 09/12/2005 00:11
Hey,

i will never forget the death of a girl in my school. And i will never forget being faced with the task of answering her friends questions on it (I lead a christian group in the school, many of the members were her friends.) The event had sparked a questioning of my own faith, how death must play its part in life, and why God doesn't seem to take action on it (or does he?)

Answering these questions is a hard enough task, near impossable some would say, having little over a few days to not jsut answer them, but learn to beileve them, so i could help pass them on to 12 yr olds was almost behold me! I remeber spending many hours speaking to the school chaplin, my priest, teachers and partents in a despite search for answers. I found a few, the basic ones, i also learnt that no one has all the answers, nor will anyone ever will.

I re-call the meeting at lunch time 3 days later, i had hoped to cover the subject in a light hearted and fun way, but after the death, i felt it was far from what was needed. i decided i'd stick to old format, start with a game, followed a bible reading, the talk, and disscussions, then finish with a prayer.

Well the game actualy went pretty well, and for a moment everyone was like before, but the moment passed quicky, and the atosphere seemed the more tense for it, it was far from the ice breaker i had hoped for! I seem to remember picking the story of the death of Izzarath (work out that name! spelling is hopeless!) and Jesus' bringing him back to life. i wanted to try and show that God (being Jesus) was just as saddened that things happened the way they did, but also to show that it wasn't the end, that there was still hope.

Then came the hard bit, questions, i struggled at the first one! "What God would take away my friend in front of me, she never did anything wrong!" It was almost as angry as it was sad. I tried (although, not sure how conveining i was) to explain that God doesn't interfere with death, because death is nothing more than a step in life. The questions continued, many i didn't have answers for, many i was asking myself. The chaplin was a life saver!

I finished with a prayer, i told them that i beileved that when you die, you join God, therefore if you wanted to, you could ask God to pass on a message, and you'd be sure they'd hear it. So we chose to say good bye.

That was nearly 2 years ago, i still have many questions, disunderstandings, and differcultys with the process of death. I know that some of the answers i seek, i will not know until its my turn, i know that some times, no answer will ever bring comfort, perhaps some closure in time.

In the end, we all must deal with death in our own way, and we all will deal with it differantly, but one thing is for sure, not greifing, will only mean wounds won't heal.

You need support, love, time and faith, to deal with death, it will never be easy, and i've been told, it'll never go away, but with time you can learn to live with it, God will do the rest

God Bless

NCB

From: Gilly Sent: 08/12/2005 22:06
Dealing with death is difficult and painful whether we are Christians or not......and coping with the feelings of loss can be overwhelming for many.
I think we all have differing views on this deeply sensitive issue, and most of our fears in life are based around the big fear..... of death.
As Christians, yes we live our lives with HOPE in our hearts, hope for an abundant life here on earth, and the sure knowledge that we are guaranteed eternal life....
Probably even talking about dying is something most people try to avoid.
In my life I have lost a grandson, a father, a brother and my best friend. I was devastated by the loss of each one, yet I grieved them all differently. The main thing is, that I grieved. I was allowed to do so. For many, that can seem an impossibility. Some people are too frightened of allowing themselves to grieve because they feel guilty or fear that grieving = forgetting. Everyone's coping mechanism is different, and I would say to everyone who is either grieving, or helping someone else to grieve, there is no norm, no timescale, just permit the grieving to talk. Be with them, listen to them, come alongside them, hold them, shed a tear for them, let them share their feelings without trampling upon them. Sometimes progress seems slow, but remain there for them, praying with and for them, and in God's timing they will adjust and reach acceptance.
It requires a great deal of emotional energy to grieve but eventually there comes a time when we are ready to start moving forward. As Christians, by holding on to the wholeness of the past whilst looking forward to being reunited with our loved ones with God, we come to acceptance of their death without the overwhelming pain of grief and are able to share our good memories of them.
gbu
Gilly

From: Dunggate Sent: 07/12/2005 15:57
I have so many thoughts on: is it different for Christians when someone dies to bring from my own experence. I can but only speak for myself and cannot generalise.
Well I wasn't a Christian when my Dad died the day before my wedding I was in shock naturally but went ahead with the wedding as it was his dying wish. Was it shock or was God being good to me I will only know when I ask him. But I will tell you it was a dark cloudy day the sky was heavily overcast. As I came to sign the register a bright light broke through the window and shon on me, My uncle Dave who I mentioned earlier said it was amazing how for that moment the sun broke out and shon on you. No idea if you need to know that but maybe it is necessary. My own grief I hid to try be strong for my Mum and others. On reflection I would say this is not a good thing each person should be allowed to grieve and hug each other over their loss.
Years later I became a Christian and if you read some of my testimonies among them you will find that My Mum had given her life to Jesus as a child of about 5 but never took us to Church or went herself. When I got saved her ember was rekindled and she became onfire for God, but not having read the bible, she said to me I been worried and praying for your Father, not wishing to upset my Mum and knowing you can't pray for the dead I said nothing just asked the Lord to show her because he is so gentle.
My own mind had gone over this also, I had a peace which I can't explain and talked it over with God saying well Lord I know I cannot pray for the dead I can only hope and all I can think is, Lord, you are no respector of persons and each of us are given an opportunity and whether my Dad accepted you as Saviour or not I cannot worry about now it is too late. That may seem very callous but I know that we cannot let the past in any circumstance destroy our peace, we have to go forward.
Now I can share of Gods grace and mercy. Some time later, Mum said God don't seem to be answering my prayers, I suggested maybe if she went to Church with me, (although she was now reading her bible) maybe God would have a message for you there. We arranged a date for Mum to stay with me as she lived away, and went to Church. Right from the onset it was as if the whole Service had been God arranged for Mum. It was a communion service but the Pastor said I know we usually sing this at funerals but I would like us to sing "In the sweet bye and bye we shall meet on that beautiful shore". Although I cannot say that I was brought up in a Christian home I was taught values and morals and on a Sunday although it was pop music in our house through the week on Sunday songs of praise came on. I remember quite vividly that One of the songs Mum and Dad would sing together was this one. I can't say hand on heart but I think it was almost immediately after, A Word was given in tongues and the Pastor interpreted, all the words I cannot remember exactly, but what I do was you have cried "will I see my loved one again" (These were the same words my Mum said that morning to me before we left for Church) I speak to encourage you he is in My bosom.
God has been so good to us and blessing me in letting me know also that My Dad I will see again for we were very close and it wasn't callouseness that I said He had his chance the same as everyone.
God is not willing that anyone should perish. It is so important that we at every opportunity present the whole Gospel that others will know the way that leads to Salvation.
This is how I dealt with my Fathers death as a non Christian and then a Christian.
Tomorrow I will try to bring my thoughts together on how I dealt with my Mothers death as a Christian.
Elaine.

From: Dunggate Sent: 07/12/2005 09:18
I thought this poem I found is a great comfort again for those who may have lost a young one.

A Place Where Children Are

What Kind of place would Heaven be
With all its streets of gold,
If all the souls, that dwell up there,
Like yours and Mine, were old?
How strange would Heaven´s music sound
When harps begin to ring,
If children were not gathered `round
To help the angels sing.
The children that God sends us
Are only just a loan,
He knows we need their sunshine
To make a house a home.
We need the inspiration
Of a baby´s blessed smile.
He doesn´t say they´ve come to stay
Just lends them for awhile...
Sometimes it takes them years-
To do the work for which they´ve come.
Sometimes in just a month or two
Our Father calls them home.
I like to think some souls up there
Bare not one sinful scar. I love to think of Heaven
As a place where children are.

~Author Unknown

From: Dunggate Sent: 06/12/2005 13:30
The Bible tells us put off Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
'
The words Don't put off popped into my mind today Don't put off for tomorrow what you can do today for the bible tells us we haven't been promised tomorrow.
I would like to share this with you while we are looking at the Topic Death
It is the time of year where many of us post to family, friends and loved ones a greeting card to let them know we are thinking of them. I proceeded to start on the list and posted a few, with still more to do then I remembered a birthday I thought Oh I know where I have just the card ready for this person who is fond of steam trains in the cupboard I pulled out the box where I keep the cards to find there were 3 old written Christmas cards which I had not posted last year........why am I telling you all this. Ok The point coming.
My Uncle Dave had moved and I couldn't post his card as obviously didnt have his new address. Those that are not Christians I always try to give a card that has a message of Jesus in the hope that their heart will be soft at the time of reading and they will be drawn to Christ.
Uncle David died recently of cancer. God is so good for earlier although we do not see each other often they rang me up to go to a concert in a local club and we got talking about Jesus as I usually do lol. Uncle David was everyones friend always doing good works giving lifts to people helping out in all sorts of ways and I had the opportunity to say to him that is not going to get you into heaven and he didn't understand why not I was able to explain and he wept, we said the sinners prayer outside my home when he was dropping me off. So today when I noticed that unsent card I had two reasons to praise God on my mind, the one that although I didn't get to send the card he allowed me an opportunity to speak personally to uncle Dave where in the past although he knew I am a Christian the opportunity to give him the full gospel never arose. The other that I know he has a place in heaven.
The lesson I learned from this is Ok I may not have been able to send him the card but we should be praying asking God to give us opportunities to give the message to whoever comes accross our path, to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and step out in faith open our mouths and let the Lord fill it.

I have another thought about Dealing With Death as Christians, will need time to write and post.

From: Missy (Original Message) Sent: 04/12/2005 10:37
Death is something which effects everyone, but do we deal with it different as christians? Can we cope better in this situation because we know more?
Personally I would say yes, but that would only be if the person I lost had given their hearts to Jesus, I guess knowing they hadn't would be terrible to deal with as we know what lies ahead. Im guessing that this may not be exactly what nutty wants discussed, it may be more along the lines of dealing with it generally. But no reason these points can't also be discussed as they are most important.

I leave it with you guys to add your thoughts here, look forward to reading.

MISSY.