Focus on: Faith without Works

Hi Zerich,

"I personally believe the works we do is followed after our salvation experience. All these postings are to be done but they do not lead to salvation."

Good works do follow salvation because we are aware of the truth...that we should love our neighbour.

"I believe God did it all for us concerning our salvation. God choose us from the beginning. Jesus Christ Died in our place, and The Holy Spirit led us to this knowlege, and convicting us of our need for the Savior. The only work we do is in believing what God has done for us."

Jesus died for us and reconciled us back to the Father, but it doesn't end there we have to work at our salvation. It's an ongoing process.. not a one-time event. Jesus has done His part. He fulfilled the prophecies concerning Himself and accomplished the sacrifice needed for our salvation. Now it's our turn we can refuse this great gift or we can accept it and peservere in our faith which includes works of love.

See John 6:28-29.
28... Then said they unto Him.What shall we do, that we might work The works Of God?
29... Jesus answered, and said unto them, "This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent."

Jesus had just performed the miracle of the feeding of the five thousand....So in the above He was actually saying......You should believe because God has shown you a miracle..He was also pointing to the greatest miracle He would perform....Changing the Bread and wine into His Body and Blood...... Yet many would be doubters regarding this...As we know many of his disciples left him because of this teaching.

A young man came up to Jesus and asked Him...."Good Master, what shall I do 21 And Jesus looking on him, loved him, and said to him: One thing is wanting unto thee: go, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me18 And Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? None is good but one, that is God. 19 Thou knowest the commandments: Do not commit adultery, do not kill, do not steal, bear not false witness, do no fraud, honour thy father and mother. 20 But he answering, said to him: Master, all these things I have observed from my youth.


Jesus is telling us here that we need to keep the commandments in order to be saved..He is also saying to us .....21 And Jesus looking on him, loved him, and said to him: One thing is wanting unto thee: go, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.

So the young man was to keep the commandments and give to the poor.......He was never told.... all you have to do is to just have faith

I wrote a much longer reply to this and some how it was lost so I had to redo. Its the first posting I have lost in the new room.

I dread that happening..I've done it too many times

God Bless

Jan

I personally believe the works we do is followed after our salvation experience. All these postings are to be done but they do not lead to salvation.
I believe God did it all for us concerning our salvation. God choose us from the beginning. Jesus Christ Died in our place, and The Holy Spirit led us to this knowlege, and convicting us of our need for the Savior. The only work we do is in believing what God has done for us.

See John 6:28-29.
28... Then said they unto Him.What shall we do, that we might work The works Of God?
29... Jesus answered, and said unto them, "This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent."

I wrote a much longer reply to this and some how it was lost so I had to redo. Its the first posting I have lost in the new room.

Zerich

you cannot do enough to compensate Jesus for His sacrifice or win God’s approval apart from grace. One of the great Bible passages on this subject explains that we are saved not by any works of our own but by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9). The following verse tells us, “We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Notice that you are God’s workmanship. He calls you to be a person of excellence because He made you; there is no other reason. It has nothing to do with whether you look and act excellent or do outstanding things. You are a prized example of His creation.

As a Christian, your life is fulfilled in Christ Jesus. You experienced a rebirth, or a re-creation of you. Paul wrote, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new” (2 Cor. 5:17).

This isn’t a matter of waking up one morning, looking at yourself in the mirror, and saying, “I’m going to do things differently. I’m going to succeed.” Rather, it’s a matter of submitting to God every morning, acknowledging, “I’m Yours. I accept by faith that Your Holy Spirit now resides in me. I trust You to lead me to act and think in a Christlike manner. Help me live Your life today.”

Christ does the recreating in you. Because it is His work, and His alone, you cannot boast about your good works. The fact is, they are His works.

Every other religion operates on the basis of works—follow a certain ritual, complete a list of required things, and you will have “arrived.” Christianity says that nothing you can do will earn you favor with God.

Consider this passage from the book of Titus:

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:5-7).

Works do not add up to salvation. Holy living doesn’t put us in a position to receive God’s love and forgiveness. We cannot earn these blessings; rather, they are gifts of God which become our motivation for holy living. We no longer have a desire to do anything that might hurt the heart of the One who loves us so completely and lavishly

"The Bible is quite clear that our own works do not help merit salvation. “Not by works of righteousness which we have done” (Titus 3:5)."

Righteousness or justice in the passage above means moral qualities. If you had posted the previous verses you would have read.......1 "Admonish them to be subject to princes and powers, to obey at a word, to be ready to every good work. 2 To speak evil of no man, not to be litigious, but gentle: showing all mildness towards all men. 3 For we ourselves also were some time unwise, incredulous, erring, slaves to divers desires and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But when the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared:"

“Not of works” (Ephesians 2:9).

Again if you had posted.....the following verse you would have read......10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them.

“There is none righteous, no not one” (Romans 3:10).

Meaning... not by the law of nature, or of the law of Moses.... but only by faith and grace.

" This means that offering sacrifices, keeping the commandments, going to church, being baptized, and other good deeds are incapable of saving anyone. No matter how “good” we are, we can never measure up to God’s standard of holiness (Romans 3:23; Matthew 19:17; Isaiah 64:6)."

Good deeds certainly do save us as scripture tells us... and nowhere does the Bible say that Baptism is unnecessary...that passage does not exist. The Bible tells us about Baptism Ezek 36:25-27,"I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses......"a new heart I will give you and a new spirit I will put within you...and I will put My spirit within you..."

Here, in the Old Testament, we have a foreshadowing of New Testament baptism.

The New Testament corresponds to what we have just read in Ezekiel...... Acts 2:38, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." ...... Note that there is no symbolic language here...this is real!......"Be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins." ........."I will sprinkle clean water upon you and you shall be clean from your uncleanness."......."And you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Ezekiel says: "...and I will put My Spirit within you." You can see here how God, in the Old Covenant, was preparing us for what He gives us in the New Covenant.

Acts 22:16 - "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins...". 1 Cor 12:13 - "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body..." What body was that? The Body of Christ. Ptr 3:21: "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you..."

Question: "How can salvation be not of works when faith is required? Isn't believing a work?"

Answer: Our salvation depends solely upon Jesus Christ. He is our substitute, taking sin’s penalty (2 Corinthians 5:21); He is our Savior from sin (John 1:29); He is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). The work necessary to provide salvation was fully accomplished by Jesus Himself, who lived a perfect life, took God’s judgment for sin, and rose again from the dead (Hebrews 10:12).

The Bible is quite clear that our own works do not help merit salvation. “Not by works of righteousness which we have done” (Titus 3:5). “Not of works” (Ephesians 2:9). “There is none righteous, no not one” (Romans 3:10). This means that offering sacrifices, keeping the commandments, going to church, being baptized, and other good deeds are incapable of saving anyone. No matter how “good” we are, we can never measure up to God’s standard of holiness (Romans 3:23; Matthew 19:17; Isaiah 64:6).

The Bible is just as clear that salvation is conditional; God does not save everyone. The one condition for salvation is faith in Jesus Christ. Nearly 200 times in the New Testament, faith (or belief) is declared to be the sole condition for salvation (John 1:12; Acts 16:31).

One day, some people asked Jesus what they could do to please God: “What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?” Jesus immediately points them to faith: “This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent” (John 6:28-29). So, the question is about God’s requirements (plural), and Jesus’ answer is, “God’s requirement (singular) is that you BELIEVE Me.”

Grace is God’s giving us something we cannot earn or deserve. According to Romans 11:6, “work” of any kind destroys grace—the idea is that a worker earns payment, while the recipient of grace simply receives it, unearned. Since salvation is all of grace, it cannot be earned. Faith, therefore, is a non-work. Faith cannot truly be considered a “work,” or else it would destroy grace. (See also Romans 4—Abraham’s salvation was dependent on faith in God, as opposed to any work he performed.)

Suppose a unknown benefactor—someone with whom I had no previous dealings whatsoever—sent me a check for $1,000,000. The money is mine if I want it, but I still must endorse the check. In no way can signing my name be considered earning the million dollars—the endorsement is a non-work. I can never boast about becoming a millionaire through sheer effort or my own business savvy. No, the million dollars was simply a gift, and signing my name was the only way to receive it. Similarly, exercising faith is only the way to receive the generous gift of God, and faith cannot be considered a work worthy of the gift.

True faith cannot be considered a work because true faith involves a cessation of our works in the flesh. True faith has as its object Jesus and His work on our behalf. See Matthew 11:28-29 and Hebrews 4:10.

To take this a step further, true faith cannot be considered a work because even faith is a gift from God, not something we produce on our own. “For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that [faith] not of yourselves: it [faith] is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8). “No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him” (John 6:44). Praise the Lord for His power to save and for His grace to make salvation a reality!

ZERICH

Question: "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"

Answer: This is perhaps the most important question in all of Christian theology. This question is the cause of the Reformation - the split between the Protestant church and Catholic church. This question is a key difference between Biblical Christianity and most of the "Christian" cults. Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works? Am I saved just by believing in Jesus, or do I have to believe in Jesus and do certain things?

The question of faith alone or faith plus works is made difficult by some hard-to-reconcile Bible passages. Compare Romans 3:28, 5:1 and Galatians 3:24 with James 2:24. Some see a difference between Paul (salvation is by faith alone) and James (salvation is by faith plus works). In reality, Paul and James did not disagree at all. The only point of disagreement some people claim is over the relationship between faith and works. Paul dogmatically says that justification is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9) while James appears to be saying that justification is by faith plus works. This apparent problem is answered by examining what exactly James is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-18). James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his life – then he likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).

Paul says the same thing in his writings. The good fruit believers should have in their lives is listed in Galatians 5:22-23. Immediately after telling us that we are saved by faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8-9), Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10). Paul expects just as much of a changed life as James does, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17)! James and Paul do not disagree on their teaching on salvation. They approach the same subject from different perspectives. Paul simply emphasized that justification is by faith alone while James put emphasis on the fact that faith in Christ produces good works.

ZERICH

From: openairpreacherman Sent: 26/02/2006 18:54
James is repeating the teaching of the Lord when he said 'By their fruits they will be known'.

If a person comes to your church and says 'I'm a christian'. Then we are entitled to watch to see fruit. James is saying if a person claims to be a christian but there is no fruit or good works then we are entitled to say 'You are not a Christian'. Because although Good works does not produce salvation but good works ALWAYS accompanies.

Steve
From: Missy Sent: 26/02/2006 19:09
But wouldnt that be judging Steve?

Sayng "Your not a christian".

From: openairpreacherman Sent: 26/02/2006 19:31
Jesus is telling us to be discerning. Often the word judge is misunderstood it means to be condemning. In a court the judge does not decide if the person is guilty or innocent - the Jury do that. The job of the judge is to pass sentence. We are not to judge in the sense of being condemning but we are to open our eyes and see people for what they are. We are to look for fruit. If there is no fruit then we are entitled to question the profession of faith.

Steve

From: openairpreacherman Sent: 26/02/2006 18:44
Hi Missy,

The passage says...
Jam 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James is not talking about Salvation itself but a persons Profession of Salvation. He is saying What is the good is a man SAYS he has faith but does not live as if he has. Can his profession of faith save him? The answer is no! He says 'Faith without works is dead'. In other words if you have faith then then it WILL be accompanied by goods works.

So Salvation is by faith alone but it will always be accompanied by good words. The good works do not save but they accompany salvation.

Steve.

From: Dunggate Sent: 15/02/2006 11:19
Sorry Missy as you are aware I was ill with the flu and didn't come back to this TOPIC
I see you have started This weeks
Will Jesus Literally return to this earth?

There is no reason why any of the TOPICS cannot be brought back and added to though JUST A LITTLE REMINDER TO EVERYONE
Love in Jesus Elaine.

From: Dunggate Sent: 05/02/2006 19:02
Do you believe action and faith must go hand in hand in order to recieve salvation?
Well Missy I recon this will be an interesting topic.

I am rushing around playing catchup at the moment as I have been locked out of my house for 3 hours
I will definately watch this thread with interest and may be able to add a few thoughts and scriptures.
Elaine.

From: Missy Sent: 05/02/2006 17:18

I would like to use James 2 to use as an example.


Verse 14

What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?

The above verse tells us faith alone does not save us, the action needs to go with it.


Verse 15-17

Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

This says to me that words are in no way enough, we must act upon what we say.

Verse 18

But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

Your faith cannot be seen through your words alone.

Verse 19

You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

This says to me if belief alone makes the demons shudder, then what will it do to us?


Do you believe action and faith must go hand in hand in order to recieve salvation?

From: Missy (Original Message) Sent: 05/02/2006 15:15
This topic.

Faith without Action
MISSY.
her thoughts next post.
Elaine