Focus on Tattoo's?

From: Missy Sent: 16/12/2005 17:27
Thanks for your input Steve.


Im using the New Living Translation. I should think the author took that into consideration.

MISSY.

From: Tim Sent: 16/12/2005 17:27
not necessary? I beg to differ.

If this is designed to be discussion that is ill-informed and subjective rather than objective, go ahead. If however, if we want informed discussion that is objective regarding the subject matter, than other issues will have to be brought in. If they dont sit comfortably with someones own views, well, thats a public discussion for you.

Tim.

From: SuzukiSVRider Sent: 16/12/2005 17:22
The strange thing is - alot of different translations use the word Tattoo in THAT verse in Leviticus when in actual fact the word tattoo wasnt even heard of when the book was written.

the word tattoo is derived from sailors who travled to greece and had "tattoo's" placed on their bodies to comemorate their trips. The probelm is the greek word used to describe this process is tatau - but the old sailors couldnt pronounce it properly and so the word TATTOO was born.

So if the word was not even "invented" when leviticus was written what is the true translation of the ancient scriptures?

From: Missy Sent: 16/12/2005 17:13
Tim,
We are just discussing what it says on this one topic though. Anything directly associated with TATTOOS can be posted up, it gets confusing when you start using other stuff as examples, especially when its not necessary.

MISSY.

From: Tim Sent: 16/12/2005 17:06
but you have to think about what the bible says, you cannot read the bible and commit intellectual suicide. When Jesus says 'I am the vine' in John's gospel, do we not think about it, and presume he is a green thing that grows? No, we think about the literary tools used in John, and interpret it accordingly.

Thereby, we cannot analyse 'what the bible says' without putting in how we interpret it, and by that process we think.

Tim.

From: Dunggate Sent: 16/12/2005 17:05
Hi Tim I read through a few times and sorry am I missing something
Quote
Talk about a power trip...

Tim.
Can you explain please. Elaine.

From: Missy Sent: 16/12/2005 16:49

Tim,


Im just stating what the bible says. Thats the point Im trying to get across, what the BIBLE says not what we think.

MISSY.

From: Tim Sent: 16/12/2005 16:17
Missy,

What does that mean? We are talking about Tattoos...mentioned in Leviticus, and I mentioned some of the other things mentioned in Leviticus in order to clarify a point. We dont talk about whether Jesus was risen from the dead without referring to his crucifixion, likewise in this situation.

Talk about a power trip...

Tim.

From: Missy Sent: 16/12/2005 16:03
Helen,
I don't mean anything bad towards you having tattoos personally, you said this at the end of your last post:

In conclusion: Tattoos; if you want.
Piercings; if you want.
Sexual Immorality/Sin/Pride/Swearing etc; Nope, not acceptable.
Although I don't think mini skirts and low cut tops showing underwear is appropriate really, as they tempt those who struggle.
That's my opinion for what it's worth.

Im just trying to put across that according to the bible they are not ok. I understand christians having them before getting saved as I have already said here. Someone put in a request to discuss this topic so thats what we're doing, taking what the bible says into consideration, of course.

MISSY.

From: Missy Sent: 16/12/2005 15:59
Tim,
The topic is TATTOOS not PORK, Thanks for not changing it.
I know what you mean by your comment but its not nothing to do with this, you want to discuss eating pork, start a new thread, Thanks.

MISSY.

From: Rock Child of God Sent: 16/12/2005 13:40
Well missy if I could remove them I would, they're from my past life, although if I had cover-ups (which is more likely - but then again I should never underestimate God - things happen - all things are possible with God) they would be biblical, as the word says, if we do anything we should do it for the glory of God.
Leviticus - old laws which Jesus set us free from...Amen!
Bacon...*drools* yep, esp.with brown sauce, or cheese and ham toastie!
Earring too, no not acceptable by biblical standards in old law.
My baptismal verse:
Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
Praise Jesus.
Biblically - tattoos don't matter anymore, and if your having Christian ones - your not marking yourself for the dead, as Jesus is alive!
There where old traditions where the tattoos people had were to honour their dead ancestors, probably something akin to shamanism. Hence some of the tribal "faces" and strange brandings.
I believe (biblically sound) that tattoos are a matter of choice but nothing should be put before Jesus, as anything that is - is an idol.
Thats what I was theologically taught on tattoos/piercings etc.
God Bless you all & I enjoy it here as your all great plus honour the Lord and do some great teachings/discussions *Hugs to all*, Helen xxx

Quick gospelcom search gave me some links FOR and AGAINST (safe tested with my AV):

• Is it ok to have tattoos thread: http://cbh.gospelcom.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1540

•To tattoo or not to tattoo website: http://www.av1611.org/tattoos/intro.html


• Christian Tattoo Association: http://www.xtat.org/

From: Tim Sent: 15/12/2005 16:29
Thats a very monoptic view Missy - the Bible also says not to eat Pork, do you eat Pork? I know I cant resist a bit of bacon.

Please refer to my above quotations from Leviticus, and if you agree and render those still valid, then you have a position to comment we should not ahve tattoos on a biblical principle. Otherwise, it is not a bibical issue. I cant stand tattoos, but I dont appeal to the Bible for my evidence.

Tim.

From: Missy Sent: 15/12/2005 16:09
Tattoos are ok Helen even thought the bible says not to put them on yourself?

Nothing personal against them but we are doing this as a biblical thing.

MISSY.

From: Rock Child of God Sent: 15/12/2005 13:41
Have to chip in here! Why? Well as you can probably gather by my s/n i'm into rock music and was a biker then punk (can't bike now coz of my back and coz my ex has my bike!).
Tattoos where part of the scene and although not mandatory to be a biker, lots of us had them!
So I have 8! From before I was saved (I was aged 15! when I had my 1st one and 17 my last - underage!) and some, well all bar 1 (of a rose) I hate!
It will cost me XXXX amount of money to have them removed and it is not available on the NHS in the part i'm in. So as people at church call them my "battle scars" and a witness to show were God saved me from (one is of a devils head - my watch covers it). I also have "born to loose, live to sin" tattoed above my winged skull, although we got handy with a marker and made "Born to win, dead to sin" lol, but that is from the past.
It would be much much cheaper to get cover-ups (devils head 1st to go), there is a christian tattoo association website a friend online intoduced me too (xtat org), and I knew some from the bikers gang "Tribe of Judah" (Christian bikers).
If I had my time again though, I would have none - but i'm 34 now, I don't dress in bikers gear etc anymore (even though some of the music I still listen too - bar the satanic/not helpful bands) so therefore have gone off them. I don't wear any of my piercings anymore (I had 11) either - but a lot of the youth at our church do.
I know Jesus doesn't care about my tattoos or appearance, he looks in my heart and deals with the wrong things that need sorting out there, so it's just down to my age (although I still own and love my bright pink Dr Marten boots!).
I think God is raising people up so fast these days it doesn't matter, it's an out pouring of the Holy Spirit and all peoples from every nation/culture/subculture/"religion" are being saved as we are in the end times.
However, some things remain the same and immorality, lying, stealing etc, will always be wrong and no church should tolerate them.
In conclusion: Tattoos; if you want.
Piercings; if you want.
Sexual Immorality/Sin/Pride/Swearing etc; Nope, not acceptable.
Although I don't think mini skirts and low cut tops showing underwear is appropriate really, as they tempt those who struggle.
That's my opinion for what it's worth.
God Bless, Helen xxx

From: Tim Sent: 15/12/2005 08:05
Henceforth let no man trouble me; for I bear on my body the brand marks of Jesus."
-Galatians 6:17


By the way, this is the Catholic argument for Stigmata...

Tim.

From: Tim Sent: 15/12/2005 08:05
Couldnt help but laugh over the make up thing where Missy said you can easily remove it...I bet we can all thing of an aunty or distant relevant who uses so much makeup it probably takes industrial solvent and a spade to get it off at night!

Tatoos..personally, dont like them, but thats a personal thing. I know a friend of mine who is a youth pastor and has the Hebrew 'yeshua' (Jesus) as a tatoo on his calf. Trendy perhaps, but for how long?

Biblically, there is nothing against tattoos. We cant use Leviticus, otherwise we will have to adhere to the following -

Lev 19:19 - You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed; nor shall there come upon you a garment of cloth made of two kinds of stuff.

Lev 24:16 - He who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him; the sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to

Lev. 24:14 - Bring out of the camp him who cursed; and let all who heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him. (sounds like a Pentecostal church )

And I could go on...we cant quote passages from Leviticus that currently suit our ethical or moral point of view, when others dont. That is like quoting the Bible and saying 'I believe you have to be born again, it says so in John, but I dont believe that Jesus rose from the dead/was the Son of God/raised Lazerus from the dead'. It doesnt work like that. We then supermarket religion where we shop around for the bits of the bible we like and suit us, and leave what doesnt, or what we feel uncomfortable with, on the shelf.

Leviticus was for the Jewish people before Salvation of Grace came along. I believe its nothing more than a history lesson, with plenty of valuable insights into how God dealt with his people, but not to be taken literally. And if it is to be taken literally, see you in jail for stoning your child who doesnt respect you.

Tim.

From: SuzukiSVRider Sent: 14/12/2005 22:58
When looking into biblical backing for NOT having a tattoo - i have to wonder if maybe this verse shows that tattoo's are not so bad

Behold, I have graven you on the palms of my hands; your walls are continually before me."
-Isaiah 49:16

Is this indicating that God has a tattoo - of sorts?

Also what is this verse saying?

"Henceforth let no man trouble me; for I bear on my body the brand marks of Jesus."
-Galatians 6:17

or

"On his robe and on his thigh he has a name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords."
-Revelations 19:16 - unless the Lord is writing on himself is this not a form of tattoo's?

The reason I am stating all this is beacuse I am a Christian and I currently have 3 tattoo's and am planning at least 1 more. I will also put up here (maybe tomorrow) a very convincing argument that blows away people general arguments based on Lev 19:28!!!

From: Dunggate Sent: 30/11/2005 15:36
Just a thought. We do not come under the law Ok we all agree on that we are now under grace.
But I am sure that God didn't give all those laws without good reason. Only the other day on the news there was an item that tattos can cause skin cancer.

Another thought on the shellfish mentioned, often you see listed people with alergies should stay away from them.
Elaine.

From: Missy Sent: 30/11/2005 15:14
I wouldnt compare make up with tattoos actually.

When you put make up on, you know you can just as easily take it off, you can put as much or as little and you can change it. With a tattoo however its different, its a more serious decision, you have to give it a lot of careful consideration etc. You have to decide whether or not you want this mark on your body for the rest of your life.
I don't think removal is easily done either and not available to everyone on NHS, this should also be carefully considered before having them done.


MISSY.

From: Dunggate Sent: 30/11/2005 12:30
Just a little comment on what you said Gilly "removal of tattoos can be safely done by a qualified physician."

A friend of mine had a small tattoo on her shoulder in her youth and had it removed. It left a noticeable scar there instead.

Will write my thoughts when I have collected them at moment swimming round in my head and not coming together.
Maybe because of a very late night early morning.
Elaine

From: Gilly Sent: 30/11/2005 12:08
I would agree with you there missy.....I don't want one....but it is not on the grounds of my being a Christian...although now having re-read Leviticus it could be...but I do confess to wearing makeup and I see no difference in applying that daily to make myself feel more presentable, than in wearing a permanent form of makeup with a tattoo.
There is a danger though in expressing deeply held values and emotions and having them tattooed on ones body permanently. There are many people who are deeply troubled by the daily visible expression of old feelings they have permanently marked themselves with and no longer agree with. Many have been so tormented by their tattoos that they harm themselves in an attempt to remove them and become depressed to the point of despair, so God's advice is good in Leviticus. To those who may be affected, or if you know of someone affected in this way, it is important that they have help from someone who is able to steer them back into balancing their emotions, and seek the help of a doctor as removal of tattoos can be safely done by a qualified physician.
Gilly

From: Missy Sent: 30/11/2005 11:45
I dont have a problem with them either, I wouldnt want one though.

I don't think it would be right as a christian to get one. If they're part of your past then thats different.

MISSY.

From: Gilly Sent: 30/11/2005 11:22
This topic does seem to have silenced us. To be honest, in ignorance I had to re-read the Scripture in Leviticus19 because it had completely slipped my mind. Having done so, aren't these old laws meant for the Jewish nations alone? If not, I DO have a problem as I have broken a few....I have planted two kinds of seed in the same field.....I have worn clothes made of two kinds of material.....I have cut the hair on the sides of my head and I have eaten fruit from trees less than three years old!!!!!!!!!.......Now what are we going to do with me!!!!!!!!
However, I do not have a tattoo, nor do I see a problem with anyone having one if it is tastefully done and if it doesn't depict something that would be upsetting to others or God.
Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit.....and should be treated with love and respect.....it is our duty to keep them presentable.....inside and out. As a Christian I think it is more important to concentrate on the inside.....what is in our hearts, our thoughts and our words....and deeds...and to bring them 'out' into the world in a manner that is acceptable and pleasing to God.
Gilly

From: Dunggate Sent: 30/11/2005 03:06

THE BIBLE STATES THAT YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
by the way I an assitant manager of same site name.

. 1Co 6:19-20 “What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? [20] For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.”

From: bibby15942 Sent: 29/11/2005 20:35
Deafening silence Missy
Steve